Battlefront.com Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Very good presentation about the tail end of the British operations in Basra: http://www.slideshare.net/RUSI_online/colonel-patrick-sanders?type=powerpoint Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Mild NSFW. Hole through a guy's hand in there. That being said, I thought it presented task organization and his concept of operations in a very easy to understand (disregarding the accent) manner. Shame it didn't turn out so well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 How is a minor injury not safe for work? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 How is a minor injury not safe for work? It's pretty grotesque looking. Even then, it's mild. I personally don't have a problem with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Very good stuff there - even my Brother who hates military stuff sat through most of it! Seriously though it was interesting to get an insight as to how textbook COIN ops are put into practice and the challenges facing the commanders on the ground. I just wonder who thought that sending a single battlegroup into Basra was a good idea? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Yeah, it's a really solid bit of information. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 I researched how the British media treated this withdrawal at the time and, not surprisingly, the "partisan" news papers ripped into it big time. Not without some merit because of the greater context of the war itself. Definitely the British withdrawal was premature and not tied to events on the ground. I doubt even LT Colonel Sanders would disagree with that. But if the politicians who head the war don't have a clue what they're doing (and neither the US or British had a good plan from the start) and then compound that by not putting the resources in... better to head out and go home. An example of what I mean is that this was a ridiculously undersized force, as Sanders points out, for the population and terrain density. Never mind the fact that there was more organized and well armed resistance in Basra than probably anywhere else in Iraq. On top of that, they were being funded, armed, and instructed by Iran. OK, that's bad enough... but losing about 1/4 of your entire force to casualties and NOT SENDING A SINGLE F'N REPLACEMENT?!?! Oh c'mon... talk about deliberately setting the stage for failure. And unfortunately, failure is what happened. I don't know when this talk was given, but we do know that Basra became a massive and bloody battleground shortly after the British forces departed. Here's a synopsis That being said, it was better for an undermanned British force, lacking political support for its mission, to let the Iraqis deal with it. In that sense I see the whole operation as tentatively successful. Regardless, the lower level stuff Lt. Colonel Sanders described is fascinating and an example of how well led, professional soldiers can operate effectively despite being in an unfavorable position. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Given their resources and the strategic environment they had to operate in they did a very credible job. Heavily outnumbered and in a complex civil situation it looks like they chose achievable goals and attained them. Given more backing I'm sure they could have achieved more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I sat listened to the whole talk - very well thought out and insightful into this level of operation. I suspect that had he given the talk on 'the hoove' it would have been more critical of his political masters - as he suggests at the start of the talk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The British are an amazing force. Watching many shows of reporters embedding with them in Afghanistan, they seem more professional than our US guys. They are very brave, smart, and heroic soldiers/marines/commandos. Look up Ross Kemp's stuff on his (at least two) embeds in afghanistan. Some of these shows, especially Ross Kemp's, it's just like playing CMSF. If you're a CMSF veteran, you know exactly what they are talking about as they go into detail about their tactics. Nice slideshow by the way. Basra has been a tough nut to crack. How many times have the Brits taken Basra? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 How is a minor injury not safe for work? Keep in mind that some of us work for hand modelling agencies. A few co-workers were seriously disturbed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssiissuu Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Thanks for posting the presentation, Steve. Very interesting talk and it keeps a good pace so as not to bore the audience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Yeah, it would have been GREAT to hear the presentation he wanted to give instead of the one he felt he should give. As he said, the higher ups don't want to hear the term "proxy war" because then that kinda, sorta, implies.. just a little bit... that someone should do something about it. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Excellent piece, thanks. I think it glosses over the limited effect a force able to push a maximum a company into a city of 1.6 million had, especially over three months. There is no doubt the Rifles did a professional job, and certainly the presentation is smart and intelligent. But my opinion, I'm pretty sure peace in Barsa right now not because of their efforts, but rather because the current bosses of Basra have absorbed some insurgents, terrorized more, and the Iranians such as they were got ratted out by their former Basra allies, or maybe they just the Iranians decided that since the infidels were gone mission accomplished, time to go home. 10 per cent casualties over 3 months, plus to the cost of deployment of a battalion battle group to a place like Basra, is a pretty steep price to pay for the ability to send a company or so into the city, provided it's not too hot. But kudos to the commander for not making limiting casualties his top priority, the idea that there is nothing more valuable than a soldier's life and everything must turn on maximizing soldier safety, is an insidious idea and dangerous if you're fighting an insurgency. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwobot Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 That is a very good and interesting presentation. A must see for every Shock Force player. Thanks for posting. Does anyone have a clue how this can be downloaded? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 But my opinion, I'm pretty sure peace in Barsa right now not because of their efforts, but rather because the current bosses of Basra have absorbed some insurgents, terrorized more, and the Iranians such as they were got ratted out by their former Basra allies, or maybe they just the Iranians decided that since the infidels were gone mission accomplished, time to go home. But that's the limited goals they set themselves. To create a power vacuum and make sure the Iraqi authorities filled it and to make sure it was seen as being on their terms. They couldn't fight everybody like the US - they didn't have the means. All they could do was try and be the major player in a complex situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 The British are an amazing force. Watching many shows of reporters embedding with them in Afghanistan, they seem more professional than our US guys. They are very brave, smart, and heroic soldiers/marines/commandos. Look up Ross Kemp's stuff on his (at least two) embeds in afghanistan. Some of these shows, especially Ross Kemp's, it's just like playing CMSF. If you're a CMSF veteran, you know exactly what they are talking about as they go into detail about their tactics. Nice slideshow by the way. Basra has been a tough nut to crack. How many times have the Brits taken Basra? We'll put you down for one module then sir? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meach Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Brits... Lions led by donkeys. Whatever the situation the UK is in, one thing that always does it proud is it's Armed Forces. I don't think you have to support the war to support the troops and ok, I am biased but the UK forces are incredibly professional. One of the reasons I was never a good soldier hahah 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshal Blücher Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Even being a Yank I have a great respect for the Brits. Haven't finished this presentation yet but is really interesting so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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