Suggestion on new armaments for CMSF

[Alex]

It would be desirable to say of a few ideas for a game, which would improve a playing process and increase tactical possibilities in a game. I hope that these ideas will be able to find the embodiment in adding to CMSF.

Idea 1

In a game as a class facilities of air DEFENCE absent, it in general and clearly, scale not that. However much I will throw out some occurring ideas:

1. Gun facilities of air DEFENCE, such as KPVT on a zenithal machine-tool - ZPU-1 ( http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Файл:ZPU-1-batey-haosef-1.jpg ) , ZPU-23-4 ( http://images.yandex.ru/yandsearch?p=0&ed=1&text=%D0%B7%D0%BF%D1%83-23-4&spsite=www.thetankmaster.com&img_url=www.vif2ne.ru%2Fsmf%2Fforum%2Ffiles%2FIntruder%2F(080405212403)_Zpu4_03.jpg&rpt=simage ), ZU-23-2 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2 ), ZSU "Shilka" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSU-23-4 ) and "Tunguska" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska-M1 ) at all times was perfectly used, as a mean of defeat of surface aims, at that it suffices powerful and dangerous weapon.

In the game of it is possible it would be to divide into stationary and self-propelled and to realize approximately so:

Stationary ZPU possibly can in a game be either static fire weapons or, if there is such possibility of rendering-engine of game, transported through transport vehicles (as in the heap of strategies about WWII), and as a 3-iy variant can be set in the baskets of transport vehicles, for example: ZPU-1 can be put in the basket of pikap (I saw photos, so madzhakhedy do in Afghanistan), ZU-23-2 put in the basket of any truck, and on different caterpillar undercarriages, as though MT-LB ( http://armoured.vif2.ru/mt-lb_6.jpg ). It is similarly needed to remember that those ZU-23-2 and KPVT on ZPU-1 sometimes put on the roofs of buildings in cities at a defensive.

With self-propelled options I think all and so clearly.

Possible effect directly air DEFENCE for a game. At good support from air, to play after the USA to become it is relatively simple, would allow time given on a battle, it is eventual naturally, because the USA have complete domination in mid air, however much the Syrian army has facilities of air DEFENCE, though and not too modern. However needed it is to take into account that mainly troops are supported by an army aviation, but not strategic, and against these aviation facilities (helicopters and assault airplane), fully effective even man-portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile. Actually to business, clear, that aircraft units in a game not represented by sight, and only result of their influence. It is probably possible it would be to realize the reflection of measures of counteraction an aviation analogical appearance, that facilities of air DEFENCE shoot "in sky". An effect from this counteraction can be following:

1) An aircraft unit has "life-bar" and at counteraction of facilities air DEFENCE that diminishes, proportionally to force of influence, so attacked facilities of air DEFENCE aircraft unit there is priority it will be to try to attack the target of air DEFENCE, if it in his area of attack, or if it the mean of air DEFENCE is not hidden from him, otherwise he immediately retreats (air support is halted).

2) Aircraft unit retreats immediately, air support is halted, and it is possible to become not accessible, to the moment of destroy mean of air DEFENCE.

Both variants are possibly applicable, for example: if an opponent possesses serious facilities of air DEFENCE, as that "Shilka", "Tunguska", PZRK - that operates variant of "B", if weak facilities of air DEFENCE counteract, as stationary ZPU, first variant of "A".

Actually idea my even not in that Syrians could counteract the aviation of the USA, and in that in a game powerful appeared small-bore gun systems for suppression of land facilities of enemy, including stationary (as for example ZU-23-2 and ZSU "Shilka")

Idea 2

To enter in a game a truck for the Syrian troops of type GAZ-66 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZ-66 ) for paratroopers, because for them BMP does not seize for transporting of all soldiers in a battalion, as indicated in manual, similarly possibly and truck of type URAL-4320 (http://www.uralaz.ru/catalog_ural.php?id=10⊂=35 ) for other births of troops. As such in a game they certainly are not especially needed, because maps not always are very large, however as a "interior" is in different missions (for example ambush on the column of enemy). Well and as platforms for setting of other armaments (for example ZU-23-2).

Idea 3

Rifle armament of the Syrian army. Syrians have practically all spectrum of soviet weapon actually, to complain especially not on what, however it seems to me strange absence for them of such threatening weapon of infantry, as rocket-propelled flame-thrower RPO-A "Shmel" of ( http://www.world.guns.ru/grenade/gl46-e.htm ) it is a very powerful and effective weapon, especially in the conditions of city fight. Certainly given about that whether there are "Shmel" in the Syrian troops for me it is not, but actually even if and they do not have "Shmel", but in fact T90 in their reality it is not also, and " Shmel" is exported Russia already a long ago. Presence of such weapon in rows the Syrian troops (for example at NG troops) notably would strengthen their possibilities. In the Russian army RPO are on the armament of troops of chemical defence, and these flame-thrower units is given other subdivisions in strengthening.

Weapon of Special Forces (recon).

A bit of me surprised that reconnaissance subdivisions in a game do not have a "noiseless" weapon, neither the USA nor Syrian. From one side it is normal as though, because operations in a game are mainly conducted with bringing in of large forces and facilities, and possibly there is not the special place for “stealth”, however much I think that secret service agents use such weapon not for free.

So for the Syrian side I would offer the following armament: AKMSN + noiseless firing device PBS-1 (and possibly night vision device – NSPU-1), AKS-74 + PBS-3, and possibly silenced assault rifle AS “VAL” and VSS “Vintorez” silenced sniper rifle (this weapon is similarly exported from Russia) http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as10-e.htm . This weapon is widely used in the Russian army approximately from 1987, then reconnaissance subdivisions of KGB began to apply it in Afghanistan. What is used by the American recon units I not very much in a course, but I think you know this better then me.

And an effect from application of such weapon for a game is not such and doubtful, because to locate an enemy on a flash is not possible, and for Syrians, straight strung on diversionary tactic it is a not unimportant moment. And actually in any nightly recon and diversionary operations this is important.

Here actually and all.

I ask to understand me correctly, I do not dream up here on a theme: "and was healthy yet here such thing in a game to see, and yet such and such...". I only thought over what did not have me in a game, in the plan of tactical possibilities and in the plan of feeling of realistic of what be going on. I think many will consent that my suggestions are not absurd.

I ask to forgive me for my bad English, I already a long ago was not practiced, therefore was yet and a "translator" to use. But hope all will understand that I wanted to say.

P.S. If this theme is not in a that section which it is needed in, I ask moderators to carry it.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Before anyone says anything, he is in Siberia. He has nothing else to do.

[hcrof]

I personally like the idea of trucks and maybe Shilkas. I also keep hearing references to Milan ATGM's amongst syrian formations. However I don't see these things coming in because IIRC Steve said no new Syrian units would be added to the game. Unless, Battlefront plans on suprising us...

[PSY]

I personally like the idea of trucks and maybe Shilkas. I also keep hearing references to Milan ATGM's amongst syrian formations. However I don't see these things coming in because IIRC Steve said no new Syrian units would be added to the game. Unless, Battlefront plans on suprising us...

I agree. Shilkas and trucks for the Syrians would be nice.

[akd]

ZPU-1, ZPU-23-4, ZU-23-2 and some sort of general utility/transport truck would all be excellent additions to the red roster that would fit very well in the existing game (and I would be indifferent as to whether or not they affect air support in any way).

[Field Marshal Blücher]

I REALLY want a Red truck. There are lots of scenario ideas I had that I couldn't implement because of the lack of Syrian trucks.

[Mikkey]

yes, truck for Syrian would be good

[meade95]

Love the silenced / noise reduced weapons for SOF/Sniper units idea (have wondered several times times why this isn't already standard / an option).

[Pandur]

red trucks would be the thing, with some little ammo in it becouse inf formations come mostly with just a few sprays of their AK´s

also all that old air defense stuff and a shilka would be much apriciated, and i guess steve knows all that. we already have the vehicle list for the brits, so no new red stuff at all it seems.

lets hope for the germans

[Alex]

2 Pvt. Ryan

WOW, you a so such witty man. Yes Im from siberia, and certainly we here anymore have nothing to do, how to hurry from bears and climb in the internet from prehistoric COMPUTERS.

[JonS]

I REALLY want a Red truck. There are lots of scenario ideas I had that I couldn't implement because of the lack of Syrian trucks.

Red trucks would indeed be nice, but ... in the meantime ... why not just use blue trucks?

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Red trucks would indeed be nice, but ... in the meantime ... why not just use blue trucks?

I would use Blue trucks if you could separate the trucks from the crews. But the only supply vehicles for which you can do that are some Army HMMWVs, and I would like actual trucks. Furthermore, as someone else mentioned, the Blue trucks don't have ammo for Red guns.

[JonS]

Ah. Well, that's two additional requirements that you didn't previously mention.

[akd]

Love the silenced / noise reduced weapons for SOF/Sniper units idea (have wondered several times times why this isn't already standard / an option).

M110 is modelled with its silencer attached and is intended to always be used with the silencer, so I would be baffled if this was not already implemented in the game at some level.

[Pvt. Ryan]

2 Pvt. Ryan

WOW, you a so such witty man. Yes Im from siberia, and certainly we here anymore have nothing to do, how to hurry from bears and climb in the internet from prehistoric COMPUTERS.

I just meant that it was a very long and detailed post. I saw the movie Siberiade. Has much changed?

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

Truck, MTLB, Shilka, ZSU variants - we are speaking about this for a longer time, but nothing... I don't understand why it's out.

All BMP-1 and BMP-2 have to have also RPG inside to grab if you want.

The answer is - Syrians are not Russians - this has to explain why they don't have it...

[Dietrich]

And why no AC-130? Would be grand to call for half a dozen 105mm shells onto enemy positions with (I suppose) greater accuracy and faster response than standard artillery, assuming direct contact with the Spectre.

[Flanker15]

Wrong area of operation. Syria has AA weapons, Gunships don't work well if they are burning wreckage. Remember it's a cargo plane with guns stuck on it not a combat aircraft.

The other wrong area of operation would be they're mainly used for air interdiction missions.

[Dietrich]

Ah, point. Hence the AC-130's more common use in Afghanistan.

Isn't air interdiction one of the types of missions that Blue ground forces in Syria would call for? In that case, F-15s, F-16s, F-18s, etc., would suffice, I reckon.

[GSX]

Wrong area of operation. Syria has AA weapons, Gunships don't work well if they are burning wreckage. Remember it's a cargo plane with guns stuck on it not a combat aircraft.

The other wrong area of operation would be they're mainly used for air interdiction missions.

Actually in SF, Syria has no AA weapons.

Realistically, they would be about as effective as the Iraqis were, that is, taken out on days 1-14 of an Air offensive. For surely if an F-15 is able to fly around, then a Spectre would be too.

Im sure the usual plan would be to ruin the Syrian high altitude AA and then cruise around at high level dropping PGM and the like. The AC-130 would therefore be fairly safe as it would only realy be opposed by MANPADS, which are non existent in SF and realistically have not brought down any ac flying at altitude.

I see no reason other than coding problems etc for the Ac's not to be in.

Still, the less the firepower, the more fun.

[Dietrich]

the less the firepower, the more fun.

True -- when one has platoon/company mortars, battalion mortars, SBCT/HBCT artillery, and standard air assets, an orbiting AC-130 would be perhaps too much of a good thing.

Being interested in small-scale (platoon or less) Special Forces-type scenarios, I imagine an instance where a 13-man ODA (or some such) comes up against stiff Uncon resistance and calls the on-station AC-130 for some on-the-spot raining of high-explosive death. Not so all-encompassing as a 2,000lb JDAM but more hard-hitting than a flurry from a couple o' 81mm mortars.

Being a longtime CMx1 player, I'm just glad to have air assests I can actually communicate with.

[Apocal]

We didn't use AC-130s during the march up to Baghdad for very good reasons. They are about as vulnerable as an attack helicopter all things considered, and we continuing losing helos to concentrated ground fire and MANPADs right up until 2006 IIRC. Plus, I don't think we're able to have a platform that only operates at night.

[stemar]

Yeah it come over again

My little wish list...

I know i'm dreaming but...

the "beloved" syrian truck and his not less "beloved" US one

An armored truck for syrian, a BTR-152 will be perfect

ZSU-23/4 and ZSU-57/2, Syrian use it a lot in urban warfare in lebanon, russian do the same in chechnya, i know that most of syrian ZSU-57/2 are no longer used in line but i think than most of them will be used in reserve

For the same reasons ZU-23/2 and ZPU-2/4, dismounted and on pick-up, trucks and BTR-152

May be 60mm mortar for commando but don't know if they use it...

152mm artillery, fews in service most but a lot with Guard (2S3)

It seems that Syria use also 105mm gun (M-102 chinese copy) and 76mm mountain howitzer, the first is surely used with commando, the second surely by mountain brigade

a last wish will be about the ags-17, i don't understand to don't have it in BN TO&E under BN command, and to don't have it for airborne and commando

and i will forget, about the RPO, it will be cool but don't know if Syria got it, and if they got it, don't know if it will be extensively used outside commando and engineer units.

[MikeyD]

I also keep hearing references to Milan ATGM's amongst syrian formations.

Milan almost made it into the game I think, but it was concluded that Syria's Milans were ooooold and most probably unservicable by now. If you really want Milan in the game all you need to do is purchase an AT-4 and then call it a Milan. They look about the same and the performance between the two missiles in-game would be pretty much indistinguishable anyway.

[Alex]

It seems that it is possible not to wait for the new technics for Syrian in 'Brit module', But I hope that is possible Syrian will receive new infantry arms, like a flame thrower "SHMEL" and silent rifles VAL/VSS, about which I wrote on the first page.