M32 GrL

[Pandur]

to be sure i looked up the 1.11 fix list and indeed i found this,

"Grenadiers are more willing to use their rifles, not just the grenade launchers."

now from the battles i played with 1.11 it seems they dont like their M32(maybe m203s too, but just played marines so far) at all anymore . in city fights they barely shoot with it. i saw them shooting tecnicals as usual but verry rarely on enemy infantry in buildings.

yesterday i played the "to ambush or not to ambush" mission. the first M32 shot i saw was when a team was totaly out of 5.56mm and had only the M32 with full ammo left. at that point they used it.

i also tried giving them all the m203´s from a truck in an other mission, no go they still use their rifle to 99%

i didnt noticed that too soon, its not so obvious. now i question if that isnt a bit too much changed.

anyone else saw that?

[c3k]

Pandur,

I concur. The M32 usage seems abnormally low.

I've just created a quick test scenario and, based on one run through, M32 use seems unsatisfactory. I used 2 USMC platoons against 2 Syrian Militia platoons. (Hey, I didn't say it would be a FAIR test!.) I put the Syrians in one of three locations: open ground, rooftops, inside buildings. The USMC were in open ground. Default scenario editor map, 320x320, Hotseat, WeGo.

The Marines would NOT use their M32's in the opening phases. In fact, any grenadiers would use their M4(? or do they use the M16?). Regardless, the M32 disappeared.

I then tried various target commands. Only TARGET would get them to use the M32. Even TacAI fire against known enemy, with no player induced commands, wouldn't initiate M32 use.

It seems the player MUST select TARGET or the TacAI will not allow M32 use.

I agree; I saw it, I have a scenario which highlights it, and it seems it's too radical of a change.

Regards,

Ken

[hcrof]

Funnily enough, I was playing the first marines scenario (v 1.11) and one of my sniper teams opened up with the grenade launcher without any orders - they just saw some syrian troops in the open at about 250m and fired.

At first I thought they had blown my stealth but then they wiped out the squad so I was impressed!

[Battlefront.com]

I confirmed with Charles that the TacAI can use grenades without a Target Command. Hcrof's experience appears to back that up. Perhaps the TacAI is being a little too stingy, though, so I've asked the testing lads to look into this.

Steve

[dan/california]

Sniper teams in particular are ridiculously free with them. I am playing the first campaign mission and I cannot get my sniper teams to just use their sniper rifles. They are pumping out grenades as fast as they can, and targets that are too far away for good accuracy at that.

[Thomm]

As it happens I also just played the first Marines campaign mission and noted liberal use of M203 grenade launchers.

The original post was about the M32, though!

Best regards,

Thomm

[SlowMotion]

Is this case similar:

I tried to destroy a vehicle 900m away. I think the only weapon with enough range was Javelin. But the team wouldn't use it or any other weapon.

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/r31070021/CMSF/v111_target.jpg

I don't know how the AI decides which weapon to use, but could it be that it checks which weapon is best for the target, but doesn't check range?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

None of the weapons carried by that squad should reach out to that 911m range, neither rockets or small arms. None except the Javelin, which however works better if the launcher is carried.

Expected your grunts to throw the Javelin, did you?

[hcrof]

American weapons and their crazy names...

Slowmotion - I think your problem is that your fireteam doesn't have a CLU. Only the company level javlin team has one of those and that is a pretty huge deal for the marines.

edit - looks like I was a bit slow in posting there!

[SlowMotion]

Thanks for finding the user error. Even if they threw the Javelin one shouldn't expect ranges much over 100 meters

I don't know how it is for most players, but when acquiring things from vehicles I still have problems remembering which ammo should I take for some weapons carried by a team etc.

[Pandur]

after playing quiet some more quick battles red vs red in 1.11 last days i discovered that special forces and airborne units also refuse to use the underbarrel GrL(they really start useing it when their out of ammo).

yes, i also played marines campain mission one last days, and yes US sniper teams are quiet loose with the M203. but their the only ones it seems

please if oyu guys check the M32 also have a look into the syrian SF and airborne guys, they also refuse to use this weapon system.

thanks

[MarkEzra]

I've been doing some checking and have reported to BFC. The GL32 is firing against hard targets (Land Rovers in my tests) and soft targets like inf ATGM. What you are seeing is the GL 32 gunner will use his rifle more often against infantry targets. And it seems like a lot more often! I have posted a request to review this. It just doesn't feel right to me either. No need to send save files on this one...I've got that covered. Thanks to all who brought his up.

[MarkEzra]

please if oyu guys check the M32 also have a look into the syrian SF and airborne guys, they also refuse to use this weapon system.

thanks

I checked out the Red GL teams and they're firing like their lives depend on it. I will check out The red special forces guys.

Checked...Seems like the same as The blue Forces. It looks like all Inf Sqd members GL's are subject to the same actions. By the way: While testing the Red SF units I used the Same Marine split sqd I'd originally tested. Those guys went after the Red SF with well directed GL32 fire....immediately! I had to redo the test wih the supply humvee drivers as targets....LOL....So it would seem to me that the use of the rifle vs the GL 32 is subject to threat quality with infantry, too.

[Pandur]

thats interessting! but it results in one problem right now..., if there is no threat on the map wich is considered "threat enough" they will end the battle with nearly as much rifle granades as they started with, wich isnt a good use of their fire power.

as steve also said, they all may be a bit too carfull about when it is time to shoot it, just a slight tweak in the "low threat" area and they should fire away it seems.

i dont know if it also depends on number of spotted enemys. like they wont fire a rifle granades on 350m versus a single man but they would fire it on 200 versus a spotted group of persons.

however i doubt that as the last quick battle i had red vs red featured a +150% uncon combatant rush over a crestline about 50-75 meters away of my positions. they(my guys) saw masses of targets and they where close, still no GrL use.

as i said myself, i also saw them shooting technicals, so the use versus hard targets seems to be ok.

thanks for officially reporting this mark, glad you help!