Confused about Payment

[handihoc]

Can't get my head around this.

First page tells me the price is $25

Next page adds delivery method (download and mail), raises price to $35 minus $10 discount, = $25 total.

This is confirmed in Checkout

But then I go to another Checkout page where another £20 is added for shipping and handling (Europe), which I thought was covered in the Delivery Method.

So now my total is $45.

Am I getting shipping charges twice, or am I missing something here?

[Zatoichi]

The pre-order is only available for the 'Download and hard copy' delivery option, which would be $35 without the discount. So you get the $10 off the the download and hard copy option = $25. S&H is a further $20 on top if you are outside the US.

If you wait until the game is released in September, you will be able to buy just the 'Download' option which will be a flat $25.

They don't offer a discount on just the 'Download only' option, so you can't pre-order it.

I've probably made things more confused, but I was just trying to help, honest!

[Moon]

There are two steps here: The $10 increase for "Download & Mail" is to cover the cost of the additional physical goods. The $20 (or $10 for US) is for Shipping & Handling.

[Scipio]

So it's obviously better for the most part of the world to wait for the final release. Doesn't makes much sense to pre-order anyway, since I will have the DL-version as fast as my internet connection allows, while a hardcopy of the game is one of the most senseless things in the world!

It needs some weeks to arrive in Germany - and can only be used as a dust catcher, since I don't need it to play at all. Beside the possibilty that the CD will contain just an outdated version of the game/module, if I think about the update-feast after the release of CMSF.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

So it's obviously better for the most part of the world to wait for the final release. Doesn't makes much sense to pre-order anyway, since I will have the DL-version as fast as my internet connection allows, while a hardcopy of the game is one of the most senseless things in the world!

It needs some weeks to arrive in Germany - and can only be used as a dust catcher, since I don't need it to play at all. Beside the possibilty that the CD will contain just an outdated version of the game/module, if I think about the update-feast after the release of CMSF.

And that's perfectly fine.

But if you don't want to pay for the stuff that comes with the pre-order physical shipment, then don't ask for it to be given to you for free next time.

[Moon]

Scipio, we've actually changed our shipping infrastructure since the beginning of the year, and goods for European customers are in fact produced in Europe (Germany), so no waiting time is involved anymore. So you are going to get the games by mail as fast as the US customers.

PS. As for the other points - it's your choice entirely if you want to pre-order or not. Some people like to have the original disc (or disc and manual in case of the bundle offer), even if only to "gather dust". Some don't. We give you the choice. It is only "obviously better" to not pre-order if one was to assume that most people think what you think and likes what you like. That can be a rather risky assumption

[Wiggum]

I will use this thread to make some questions...

1. I have the paradox version of the game. When i buy and install the marine module i dont need to put the cd into the pc everytime i will play cmsf ?

And i can install the battlefront version of all future patches ?

2. Im from germany. 1€ is around 1.50$. What will i have to pay ?

And what options of paying do i have (credit card ect.) ?

3. I can play the marine module in german language with a german manual ?

Gruß Wiggum

[Moon]

Hello!

1. I need to check back about this.

2. The price for the Marines module is $25, so in Euros that's around €16.66 at the moment. (But the dollar is climbing rapidly at the moment, so it can of course change based on the exchange rate when you actually place the order). If you pre-order, you'll need to add shipping to that ($20 for Europe, or €13.33 at current rate).

3. No, Marines is english-only.

[Wiggum]

Hello!

1. I need to check back about this.

2. The price for the Marines module is $25, so in Euros that's around €16.66 at the moment. (But the dollar is climbing rapidly at the moment, so it can of course change based on the exchange rate when you actually place the order). If you pre-order, you'll need to add shipping to that ($20 for Europe, or €13.33 at current rate).

3. No, Marines is english-only.

No german language...thats hard...

Now im not sure if i will buy this.

Can you tell me something about the paying option ?

[missinginreality]

Scipio, we've actually changed our shipping infrastructure since the beginning of the year, and goods for European customers are in fact produced in Europe (Germany), so no waiting time is involved anymore. So you are going to get the games by mail as fast as the US customers.

Gee Moon; don't know what you're doing about Oz customers then, maybe you got a secret CD duplicating plant down the road coz I ordered a hardcopy of Dropteam aswell as download and got it in like, 3 days or something [the hardcopy, not the download.] I was qwell impressed.Awesome That's almost as long as it takes me to get an express post from out of state sometimes.Good on you guys, you're doing a great job.

[Scipio]

Scipio, we've actually changed our shipping infrastructure since the beginning of the year, and goods for European customers are in fact produced in Europe (Germany), so no waiting time is involved anymore. So you are going to get the games by mail as fast as the US customers.

PS. As for the other points - it's your choice entirely if you want to pre-order or not. Some people like to have the original disc (or disc and manual in case of the bundle offer), even if only to "gather dust". Some don't. We give you the choice. It is only "obviously better" to not pre-order if one was to assume that most people think what you think and likes what you like. That can be a rather risky assumption

Moon, if the hardcopy is produced in Germany and as i assume also shipped from Germany, why the hell do I have to pay $20 for shipment??? Price for sending a CD or DVD with the Deutsche Post within Germany is just €1.44...

[Moon]

No german language...thats hard...

Now im not sure if i will buy this.

Can you tell me something about the paying option ?

Ah yes, sorry, I forgot that one. We accept credit cards (Visa and Mastercard) and Paypal.

[Moon]

Moon, if the hardcopy is produced in Germany and as i assume also shipped from Germany, why the hell do I have to pay $20 for shipment??? Price for sending a CD or DVD with the Deutsche Post within Germany is just €1.44...

You're paying not just the shipping, but Shipping & Handling. Handling includes the entire infrastructure needed to ship you your game AND thousands of other people. It's one thing if you drop one envelope into the mailbox one time, but something else entirely to ship hundreds or thousands of orders. Handling includes picking, packaging, tracking, sales support, warehousing, accounting, and lastly the wages for the people who are doing all this. The rate is also a flat rate for all of Europe, not just Germany, so the actual shipping cost ranges from €1.44 to €6.00, depending on the actual location of the customer. The average pure shipping from our European warehouse is €4.50 by the way. The remaining €8 or €9 go for the handling part.

Do I have to explain all this to you? Nope, but you asked so nicely

The bottom line is that we offer Mail order for people who like it, and we offer Download Only for those who don't. You would be surprised how many people choose the Mail option (about 40% of all orders).

[handihoc]

"You would be surprised how many people choose the Mail option (about 40% of all orders)."

Yeah, I've just done it. It's kind've like with music: I'll regularly listen to loads of stuff, but if I find I really like the artist or band, or if it's someone I already know and admire, at some not too distant point I'll buy the cds. I don't actually need 'em, but it feels more real somehow, plus I want to be supporting that artist with a view to more great music in the future.

Same thing here. The mail cd will most likely sit on my shelf untouched (though if there's a hardcopy Marines manual, that'll get used), but it just feels better to have it, even if I have to pay more, and I have no objection to supporting a company that makes such absorbing games.

Just a personal thing, really.

[tankibanki]

No german language...thats hard...

Now im not sure if i will buy this.

I'm never really sure about irony in posts so I've got to ask: Are you kidding?

To me the German versions of CM games have created more problems than they solved.

[Scipio]

You're paying not just the shipping, but Shipping & Handling. Handling includes the entire infrastructure needed to ship you your game AND thousands of other people. It's one thing if you drop one envelope into the mailbox one time, but something else entirely to ship hundreds or thousands of orders. Handling includes picking, packaging, tracking, sales support, warehousing, accounting, and lastly the wages for the people who are doing all this. The rate is also a flat rate for all of Europe, not just Germany, so the actual shipping cost ranges from €1.44 to €6.00, depending on the actual location of the customer. The average pure shipping from our European warehouse is €4.50 by the way. The remaining €8 or €9 go for the handling part.

Do I have to explain all this to you? Nope, but you asked so nicely

The bottom line is that we offer Mail order for people who like it, and we offer Download Only for those who don't. You would be surprised how many people choose the Mail option (about 40% of all orders).

I'm sorry for beeing such a smartass, Moon. Indeed I had choosen mail order in the past for everything I purchased directly at Battlefront.com, too. It is just that I paid $20 shipping&handling for shipment from US to Germany (IIRC), what's fine for international, transcontinental shipment. I also wouldn't mind to pay 6 or 7 Euro for shipment & handling within Germany, what is still a normal rate here. But asking for 8 or 9 Euro just for packing and handling (~12-13.50 US-$) doesn't, well, 'looks good'. Especially if shipping & handling inside the USA is just 10$ total.

[Moon]

handihoc, I think Steve confirmed in another thread that the Marines module hardgoods will include the small Marines module supplement.

Scipio, the S&H for Europe reflects our cost of doing business here. We are simply passing the cost on to the customer, and in some cases (for certain countries and for bigger orders), we even swallow some of it from our margin. When you say "just packing and handling", that shows that you don't really understand what's involved to run this kind of operation. Having said that - nobody is blaming you for choosing the download only. We are offering this choice for customers like you.

Martin

PS. I know what the "normal rate" for S&H is "here", because I am "here", too I am living in Southern Germany myself. Except for big mail order companies like Amazon or others I seem to be paying way more than 6 or 7 Euros for Shipping AND HANDLING all the time.

[Scipio]

Martin, obviously I can speak only of my privat 'shipping & handling' calculations when sending a CD to somebody. But maybe should I talk with Steve about your salary. It is obviously to high, if it blows up the handling costs so much!

Jedenfalls, sag mir bescheid falls Du in Freiburg wohnst, dann komm ich mir meine Kopie grad abholen!

[Elmar Bijlsma]

There's a world of difference between shipping a CD and book/DVD. You'd be amazed. Also international shipping is pretty expensive. Compare the price BFC charges with the price this large Dutch website charges. Notice the difference between CD and DVD/book shipments. And the big jump in price when it needs to cross a border. If the biggest Dutch media story (with access to the top notch Dutch infrastructure for international trade) can't do better, I'll give BFC a pass too.

[tankibanki]

Jedenfalls, sag mir bescheid falls Du in Freiburg wohnst, dann komm ich mir meine Kopie grad abholen!

Nicht Moon und auch nur noch 6 Wochen lang, aber "Bescheid", das ist ja lustig.

[Scipio]

Elmar, I know. But as Moon has mentioned above, European copies are shipped from Germany, and destination (in my case) is Germany, too. There is also no price difference for sending a CD or DVD in Germany, I did both already. This is BTW the case at bol.nl, too. I assume you'd be surprised if BOL would ask 12 or 13 € for shipping to the Netherlands, wouldn't you? Allow me to allege you futherly that you would at least request if this rate is justified.

The German rates for sending a letter (without insurance) up to a weight of 500g are: €1.45 within Germany, €4.50 within the EU (incl. Swiss) and €8 to the rest of the world.

€ 2.20, €6, €12 for up to 1000g.

Yes, I still think that €4.50 for shipping PLUS €9,- for packing and handling is way to much. Of course it must be considered that sending several copies in one package will rise the shipping costs for BFC. A single copy of CMSF incl a thick manual weights ~260g, a normal DVD/game with no manual weights ~150g. Calculate yourself .

Anyway, I'm happy with the download version for a module. Burning it on a blank CD costs me just some cents today.

[Sequoia]

Nicht Moon und auch nur noch 6 Wochen lang, aber "Bescheid", das ist ja lustig.

I hear Moon has a big dog so I would stay away.

[Combatintman]

Guys - I spend more on buying a round. You could just get over it.

[troupierLEON]

Noch jemand aus Freiburg... das lohnt sich ja dann fast schon

[Moon]

Yes, I still think that €4.50 for shipping PLUS €9,- for packing and handling is way to much.

Feel free to send us a better offer The offer should include:

- warehousing (about a truckload full of hardgoods on average)

- sales support (tracking, returns, reships)

- packaging and labelling (license keys, shrinkwrapping)

- packaging materials (envelopes, boxes, labels)

- order imports (database)

- picking and packaging (final order assembly)

- QA (make sure the right stuff goes to the right person)

- hand-off to carrier (daily, 6 days a week)

- accounting and reporting (what shipped, what's backlogged)

- inventory tracking

- security and insurance

All of this on a daily basis, servicing all of Europe (East and West), and including service for product rollouts such as the Marines module where hundreds and often thousands of products need to leave on the same day.

Like I said, it's a COMPELTELY different thing if I put a CD into an envelope and drive down to my local post office, or if you have to do this on a large scale, day in and day out. Big companies can do this cheaper, no doubt. Some small companies which do not have a large volume of orders can do it cheaper, too. Some other companies hide the real S&H and pad their product prices instead to offset it (do you really think "free shipping" is free?). But rest assured that we're not padding our S&H cost, and, again, you have the choice as customer to pay it or not.

BTW, just to clarify: our cost for S&H for Europe used to be $13 in the past years. That used to be around EUR 13. In the last 2 years the dollar slid down to 1.50 so we increased our S&H to $20. But it's still the same EUR 13 that it used to be, and that's despite higher energy and oil prices, salaries, inflation and what not.