NEW Scenario: Rescue!

[George MC]

Play Blue Vs Red AI; H2H; there is one AI plan Red Vs Blue AI but it does not play out all that well.

Background

Our Regimental Combat Team (RCT) main effort is engaged in clearing operations to the north of AR RIBAT. In the past week enemy fighters supported by combatants have been stepping up ambushes on our convoys travelling along Highway 5.

The SBCT battalion S2 states that there is a hard core of around 40 experienced and well-armed Chechen fighters co-ordinating this activity.

At 0645Hrs this morning the Battalion CP received a radio message from Timberwolf (SBCT Battalion CO) that the supply convoy he had been travelling with had been attacked by an IED. This attack had been followed up by heavy and sustained small arms, MG and RPG fire from the surrounding buildings. Currently Timberwolf is now in defence positions in a small farm 100m NE of Blue 3 on Highway 5.

1st Platoon (2 rifle teams and 3 Strykers), designated as the Quick Reaction Force (QRF), has been tasked to immediately make contact with Timberwolf at their position at Blue 3. They are enroute heading north up Highway 5...

Grab it HERE!

As always feedback, comments ect most welcome.

Cheers fur noo

George

[handihoc]

Looking forward to this one, George, though it may be a few days before I've time to really get my teeth into it.

Another nice-looking map, no doubt ambush-rich and bound to give my sorry ass a few good hidings.

Will report back when mission complete.

[the Fighting Seabee]

Just installed, will play now.

thanks

[M1A1TC]

George

awesome, love how you can pick several paths to objective. Very realistic map

I think BFC should hire you!

[Webwing]

George,

Fantastic! Just finished it.

Your missions are very realistic. The layout of the maps and mission itself. I think you managed to figure out how to bring out the best in CMSF.

Altough many other types of enviroinements/maps can be designed, the ones you create seem to make the game really shine.

High buildings, high walls, hills, etc, are all possible. But it seems to me that in small suburbs with 2 or max 3 stories high buildings is where this engine works best.

This Rescue map is very convincing. Even with the limited flavor objects and tools at your disposal you manage to create a very belivable town.

I'll study your maps closely and try to figure what makes them tic before releasing any maps of my own.

What's next?

[Webwing]

I was studying the classic Hummertime v4.

Unbelievable! What you did using the editor deserves an award.

I bought this game mostly to play with the editor. Now I'm paralized!

I thought the editor was way too limited in the variety of textures and objects. Now your scenarios show that so much can be done with them.

People complain that there aren't as many scenarios for CMSF as there were for other CM titles. What they don't realise is the amount of time and talent it takes to make a scenario of this quality.

Seriously, BF should hire you to make a whole add on campaign.

[George MC]

Thanks Webwing for your feedback on my scenarios that you’ve posted both here and over at CMMODs. Very much appreciated

Re your question what I do with the scenarios/maps I build the type of scenario I am interested in using the game as is (although I am beta testing I use the version 1.04 to build scenarios - found out the hard way with an earlier version of "Hammertime" not to mix your Beta and general release versions...). Most of the time I am using situations I’ve read about both in current or recent actions, but also WWII.

The stuff I've released recently comes from two main sources. “Hammertime” is based on a map idea from one of the posters here – I think it might have been a chap called Bradley Dick – where he described having to drive along bermed roads and elevated tracks so I thought Ah Ha! "Hammertime" came from that. I wanted a rural type landscape so there we go. The other recent scenario “Rescue” is based loosely on actions that the Brits were involved in around Al Amarah (you might recognise this name as I designed a scenario that was released with the game called this based on some other stuff from the same sources), plus stuff I read about on some US blogs relating to Stryker units in action.

I’ve found that creating the map – as it was with CMX1 – is the key. Taking your time to create a believable and detailed map helps so much with the ‘immersive’ qualities of the game. The CMSF editor I think is just simply stunning J It takes time to feel your way around in terms of what you can do (although doing basic stuff with it is possible right of the bat) especially creating detailed maps. Ultimately it comes down to painstaking detailing. I must admit to looking at lots of images of middle east landscapes just to get a feel for what goes on then use everything in the editor for what it’s worth! Hope this helps?

As to what’s next – I’m away on an ice climbing trip for two weeks so I’ll be out of the CM loop while I work off some thrill suckers! I’ve a few plans to create a wee campaign following an M1 unit, plus a few other scenarios. I’ll get onto them when I get back in two weeks.

Cheers fur noo

George

[Garm]

I have just finished the scenario and it brought back the fun to the game. Thanks a lot, George Mc. It was great and a bit easier than Hammertime, too. Very well balanced. I hope Battlefront will soon release modding tools (and the new patch, of course) for creative people like you .

Battlefront, if someone from your team is reading this: Hire this man.

[zmoney]

George I was a huge fan of your CMBB scenario's and now I am a huge fan of your CMSF scenario's. I just bought this game last weekend and the only two scenario's I've played so far are yours. So I hope you haven't set my expectations to high for other scenarios.

I really like your usage of the Bradleys, because I'm not a huge fan of Strykers. Keep the awesome maps coming.

[handihoc]

I'm having probs with this battle - not because of the design, but because I keep getting CTD'd. Never happened in SF before, but in two separate games of this mission it's happened repeatedly, about 20 or so minutes in, and I can't get beyond that point.

This is in WEGO so I'll try again in RT and see if that makes any difference.

I like the scenario a lot, so far. Just wish I could play it through.

[DaveDash]

I've currently given up on this scenario until 1.05 comes up. The scenario looks awesome but until some issues with the game are fixed, Urban Combat in WEGO is more an exercise in frustration than fun.

Notice the Stryker, who has its weapon pointed AT the enemy, sits for an entire 60 seconds doing nothing while the super-elite-crack enemy troops waste my entire squads.

The only enemies I have killed in this map have been through area targetting - i.e. FORCING my strykers to target enemies they can PLAINLY see already, wasting tons of ammo in the process. During WEGO most of my units sit around doing nothing while the enemy units tear apart my forces with unrealistic accuracy.

Are the OPFOR set to crack while my units set to noob or something? There's lots of 400m+ AK kills against my units who are exposed for a fraction of a second, whereas my units who are supposed to have the advantage of optics etc can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn. In this mission I had one wounded guy with an AK about 200m away take out 3 men in a squad as soon as they dismounted from a Stryker and ran roughly 3m to the cover of a building. WTF?

The other annoying thing about this scenario, which I noticed a little bit in Hammertime also, is that the doors to buildings either don't work at all, or are at illogical places. Im guessing most buildings would have an entrance facing the street, but in this scenario some buildings don't even seem to have doors to get in. Some do have doors, but they dont work, and your troops blindly run into harms way to get through some other door about 30m away.

Anyway again this seems like another could-be excellent scenario once some core issues are addressed, but it seems to challange revolves around mostly having super human OPFOR troops and trying to fight more against the engine than the guys you're meant to be killing.

[ December 04, 2007, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[JohnO]

DaveDash,

Allot of the problems your seeing has been fixed in v105. And playing it again with v105 will make allot of difference when playing it. It shouldn't be long now for the release of v105.

[DaveDash]

Yeah I look forward to playing again in 1.05.

The only scenario design feature I question however is the skill level of the OPFOR. I know they're supposed to be crack insurgents but they seem a little 'too' good.

Reminds me of playing counter-strike against bots who headshot you across the map with the AK

Anyway, check out the first half of my AAR in the tactics thread.

[ December 04, 2007, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[Webwing]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

The only scenario design feature I question however is the skill level of the OPFOR.

DaveDash,

This is not really a design feature but a designer's feature(?).

The skill of the OPFOR is set by the designer and not enforced by the game. I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

In any case as I remember GeorgeMc has given most of them Fanatic motivation and many have +2 leadership. I'd have to check again but there are a few green mixed in. I can tell you that because I studied this mission to learn how he designed it and how he got the results he got. One thing that caught my attention is that none of the RED team were less than extreme in their motivation!!! :eek:

For me though the battle seems pretty well balance. Played it 3 times before I won, but I'm getting better!

[SgtMuhammed]

George,

Although I have the same issues as Dave I think this is a really good scenario. I have high hopes for 1.05.

One question, are you actually supposed to take the entrapped units anywhere?

[JohnO]

My understanding was to get the QRF to the entrapped units and get them out, but I could be wrong. Again I like the scenario, but the Bn Cdr who is the entrapped unit doesn't have any arty or at least an airstrike to help fight off the enemy but just only two 120mm mortar tubes, just don't seem right, but thats just me.

Also the RPGs seem to take out Stryker awful easy to me, and again thats just me.

[DaveDash]

Not just Strykers, as you can see from my AAR in the other thread they wreck havock upon my troops that have occupied buildings from some pretty long distances.

The dilemma with CM:SF in its current state with extremely low Stryker and Infantry survivability is you have to figure out what you're more willing to lose, infantry or vehicles.

I tend to dismount infantry to covered overwatch positions straight away. Keeping them in vehicles will just get them killed. Then using the 'fast' command move one suicide vehicle up roads and then dart it behind cover, to draw as much RPG fire as possible. Usually works pretty well.

[SgtMuhammed]

I have noted that all the weapons in the game are way too accurate at long ranges. My troops regularly hit fast moving vehicles with AT4s at near max range. The same is true of the Syrian gunners.

The only exceptions seem to be the Javelin, which malfunctions far more than it should, around 40 percent of the time, and the 203 which is nearly useless.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by SgtMuhammed:

I have noted that all the weapons in the game are way too accurate at long ranges. My troops regularly hit fast moving vehicles with AT4s at near max range. The same is true of the Syrian gunners.

The only exceptions seem to be the Javelin, which malfunctions far more than it should, around 40 percent of the time, and the 203 which is nearly useless.

I have exactly the opposite experience! Strange. I'll do some more testing...

I think a lot of the accuracy is probably due to the experience of the troops, motivation, etc.

I have intended to do that for some time. To test the same kind of troops with same weapons but different settings to see the results.

--

[handihoc]

On the whole I don't find accuracy a problem. I've seen rpg's miss many times, and equally hit many times, especially stationary vehicles. ATGM's and javelins are similar, though generally seem to have a better (and more lethal) hit-rate. I assume their effectiveness is down to the experience etc rating of the troops, as set by the scenario designer. It's damned upsetting to see my carefully placed, or even rapidly moving, vehicles get toasted, but on the whole I haven't found it unrealistic.

[SgtMuhammed]

Accuracy and weapons effects in the game are entirely unrealistic. There was an earlier thread on why no one has been able to recreate a "Blackhawk Down" scenario. The basic problem is that all weapons fire in the game is aimed and generally falls in the area of the target. In actual combat 99 percent of all fire is area fire only in the generally general direction of the target, if that. Most isn't even slightly aimed but is of the spray-and-pray variety. The casualty rates we get in one hour of battle in the game are what a WWII division might suffer in an entire day. Look at the battalion operations in Iraq for example. The whole operation might result in a couple hundred casualties combined over a period of several days.

Also all hits seem to contribute to some sort of overall damage level. In real life you can sieve a vehicle and not stop it unless you hit something vital. One video from the "Thunder Run" in Baghdad shows a "technical" being hosed with small arms fire but turing around and fleeing the scene. That just won't happen in the game.

To be fair though, if casualty rates were realistic no one would want to play the game. Insead we would get constant threads about, "My platoon only lost 3 guys and broke, WTF?" About the only thing that comes close to game like casualty rates is armored combat where Western forces have succeeded in inflicting extremely lopsided casualty ratios.

[ December 05, 2007, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: SgtMuhammed ]

[DaveDash]

Actually I wish the casualtie rates were more accurate. For me, it would make firefights far more intense and engaging.

Even Military 'sims' like OFP - WGL5 firefights are over far too quickly. It's been a gripe of mine about combat sims for many year snow.

[George MC]

Originally posted by SgtMuhammed:

George,

Although I have the same issues as Dave I think this is a really good scenario. I have high hopes for 1.05.

One question, are you actually supposed to take the entrapped units anywhere?

Hi Sarge

Cheers fur your comments.Still on my hols but just got access to the internet. I see this scenario has provoked a lot of interesting comment - great to see

I've posted some stuff in the tactcis discussion. As to your question - no you only have to secure the ambush area and rescue (hopefull) the live guys, THEN secure the main Highway. For that you have to clear the remaining resiatcne or at least make it less of a threat.

Cheers fur noo

George Mc

[Thomm]

The map is a natural beauty.

The red side surrendered to me in this scenario.

My joy was not complete, though. Firstly, the rescue operation appears to be next to impossible. I shall try this part again.

Secondly, cleaning Highway 5 from uncon fighters is made easy by the abundance of armored vehicles for the blue side, with very little in terms of AT weaponry being available to the red soldiers. Consequently, it is more an exercise in discipline and stamina to clear all houses than a real challenge. Probe with infantry, force the enemy to open fire, eliminate with superior firepower. Rinse, repeat.

I was expecting some kind of nasty surprise or counter-attack which never materialized. 1:40 minutes is also too long for my personal taste.

Hope that did not come across as too critical. The map is wonderful and the mission is realistic, and I certainly hope for more ...

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

**** SPOILER ****

The 'rescue' part of the scenario alone with subsequent clearing of the ambush compound would be a perfect scenario, IMHO. Short and furious.

On my second attempt I preserved the ambushed troops easily, by exploiting a 'bug', namely the fact the one can move immobilized vehicles. Placing the vehicles as shown below and manning them fully, instead of putting teams in the buildings, kept them save and let them employ also the HUMVEE 0.50 cal. The reinforcement pushed through the technical attack (great fun!) and chopped up the human wave, which never got off the starting line anyway.

Good fun!!

I stopped it there, because I did not want to go through the house cleaning again!

Best regards,

Thomm