akd Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 credits to our old friend Jizzmonkey: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Fighting Seabee Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 IED bombers a cowards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Yeah just like fighter plane and bomber pilots ..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 It's a war. You do what you can/must. In this case going a-symmetrical is really the only thing insurgents can do. War is a large collection of sneaky, cruel and imaginative ways to kill fellow human beings. There's precious little "Good" in them at the best of times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunwinglow Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 ...and we 'enjoy' playing a game based on this reality. Makes you think, doesn't it..... Tim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Nearly everything that people enjoy has an element of tragedy in it. Even a beautiful sunset is dreaded as the end of the day by some. Using unconventional tactics against military targets is perfectly valid. No body wants a fair fight. The reason American forces want to face an enemy straight up is because we know it would be decidedly unfair. Unfortunately the enemy is often not stupid enough to play by our rules. So you adapt and keep fighting. Now putting bombs in the middle of a civilian market, that is cowardice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Lead Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Or dropping 2000 pound bombs into residential neighborhoods..... War is always the same--few winner and many losers. But it makes for great video games! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhantom Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 When deploying a defensive perimeter the first thing you do is place "mines." OK, I'm sorry - It's now an IED. Everytime an infantry platoon is sent out in harms way there's always a box of M18A1 Claymore mines just waiting to be used and can be deployed at any time with the platoon commander's order. They're impressive to watch go off. Hate to be on the other side, and yes they can be command controlled by the use of a "clacker." The Claymore mine is no different then a couple of 155mm shells stuck together with bubblegum, tied up with a shoestring and remotely detonated. I bet if we were in conflict with a more capable mechanized force. There would be a bigger claymore mine and our troops would have a great time knocking over a couple of APCs from a distance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Fighting Seabee Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 I know all that guys, I'm a veteran. I am just extremely biased toward the coalition. I have even set up a claymore. We've just lost so many to ied's that it makes me sick. Even so, you guys are right. There is no greater cowardice than bombing civilians who can't fight back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 good lord the human body is a resilient thing. A 15 ton vehicle is thrown across a road, burnt to a crisp, and people somehow manage to stumble out of it. those poor brave bastards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Originally posted by the Fighting Seabee: IED bombers a[re] cowardsInteresting where that line of thought leads ... basically, you seem to be saying that seeking a competitive advantage in a struggle for power is cowardice. Thus all 'warriors', ever since Thog picked picked up a rock to club Dirk with, who fight with anything other than their bare hands are cowards. Furthermore, the side with the greatest competitive advantage at any given point in time also become the greatest cowards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 so basically... all warriors are cowards... interesting conclution... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 According to FS; yes. But only if they use tools. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 In 1898 the British under General Kitchener defeated a Muslim army two to three times greater in number at the Battle of Omdurman. The Muslim army heroically charged the British lines and were cut down by artillery and maxim machine guns. Depending on who you read, British losses were between 50 and a few hundred. The Muslim army lost something like 10-11,000. Obviously the magnitude of this defeat is not lost on those in the Muslim world who oppose us now! You can't really expect them to "fight fair" given the technological superiority of America. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warrior Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 My grandmother's brother(my uncle)flew B-24s during WW2. He flew on some of the most dangerus missions during the war to include the Polisti oil field raids. He was the squadron commander and was always in the lead plane on all mission. After the war, he was flying a B-29 or B-50 over England when a fire broke out on the plane. He ordered his crew to bail out but was unable to himself becuase they where over a city at the time. While trying to get the plane to a safe area, it exploded. He died. His crew surfived and he probaly saved many lives on the ground because of his actions. I would hardly call him or any one else who flies a coward. Before you call these men and women who fly and flew, maybe you should read a little about air war fair first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Originally posted by JonS: According to FS; yes. But only if they use tools. What he actually said was that *IED Bombers* are cowards. Maybe there's more to it than your ridiculous armchair attempt to misconstrue a four word forum post? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I dont think anybody insulted your grandmother's brother here, you really missed the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhantom Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Who insulted someones brother's Grandmother? That's hitting below the belt. Did she really fight at the battle of Omdurman? That's what I like about this forum. I learn something each time I read it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Originally posted by molotov_billy: *IED Bombers* are cowards.Ok. *Why* are they cowards? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Originally posted by JonS: I'm a coward.Hey, neat trick! But seriously - maybe you should ask the guy who said it in the first place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Cowards? Nah..They are just being "gamey". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterLorre86 Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 I suggest all of you go rent "Battle of Algiers". The film makes some intellegent points on fighting insurgency, parallels of which you cannot help to see in the current war in Iraq, including the lowering of ethical standards on both sides. " Journalist: Don't you think it's a bit cowardly to use women's baskets and handbags to carry explosive devices that kill so many innocent people? Ben M'Hidi: And doesn't it seem to you even more cowardly to drop napalm bombs on defenseless villages, so that there are a thousand times more innocent victims? Of course, if we had your airplanes it would be a lot easier for us. Give us your bombers, and you can have our baskets. " I dont think it is possible to argue that one means of killing is 'more ethical' then another. You must meet your opponent in the most effective way at your disposal, you cannot expect small groups of guerrillas to follow the rules of regular armies. Near the end of the film, a french colonel asks a group of journalists the question " Should we remain in Algeria? If you answer "yes," then you must accept all the necessary consequences. " This is the question we are faced with in the US today. ...and we 'enjoy' playing a game based on this reality. Makes you think, doesn't it..... - wunwinglow An interesting thought. Why do we crave ever more realistic representations of war for personal enjoyment? I dont deny that i do, nor that i dont enjoy such representations in film, books, and games, but it certianly is interesting to think about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Humans by their very nature are violent, aggresive super monekeys with no hair that like to wage war on each other, sort of like what chimps do, but with lazer-guided weaponry. It's better to simulate it on a computer then act it out in real life, that's for sure. Three cheers for wargaming! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammelman Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 An interesting thought. Why do we crave ever more realistic representations of war for personal enjoyment? I dont deny that i do, nor that i dont enjoy such representations in film, books, and games, but it certianly is interesting to think about. We crave victory in whatever form it takes. Regarding the person who called IED people cowards, i personally think it takes the same bravery to sit there and know that your actions will lead to certain death (yours or theirs), and take the lives of others with you. Everyone is just doing their job. Regarding the The Warrior who's uncle was a pilot - those men are terribly brave because they too faced certain death, at some points during the war they faced even higher odds than their friends on the ground. I think Nemesis Lead was trying to say that its morally the same thing to press the button to drop the bomb as it is to press the button to detonate in the street. I happen to agree with Nemesis Lead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Originally posted by Ivan Drago: Humans by their very nature are violent, aggresive super monekeys with no hair that like to wage war on each other, sort of like what chimps do, but with lazer-guided weaponry.Absolutely not. Read "On Killing" by Grossman to find out how much training and indoctrination are, in fact, necessary to get soldier to kill the enemy. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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