Suggestion for UI improvement: AQUIRE

[Blackmuzzle]

Here's my suggestion for an UI improvement that should be very easy to implement:

Clicking on the area showing the vehicle inventory could bring up a two-part dialog. In the first part you select which piece of equipment to transfer. In the second part you select where to transfer it to (in this case, one of the infantry squads since we have the vehicle selected)

This could also work the other way, like allowing a squad to stuff an ATGM back into the trunk of the vehicle, or transfer it to another squad.

Alternatively, it should be possible to actually care for WHERE the user clicks, i.e. if you click on the icon of the javelin missile, a dialog pops up asking you how many to transfer, and what unit to give it to. Clicking on the launcher could pop up just with the destination unit selection since it's a singular thing.

See the attached (and crudely edited) screenshot of what I mean.

There's a lot of information being displayed down there, it might be a good idea to use that area for user input as well. By making the icons look like clickable buttons you would essentially tell the user that this is something he can interact with.

[stic.man]

very good idea.

i wish you could acquire weapons from fallen soldiers, like in theater of war.

[Roter Stern]

Although I see you point, I think Aquire already goes against the grain of the CM-series... next thing you know we'll be looking at a paper-doll layout of Sgt. Nubhead's TacVest layout of ammo and gear, telling him which pouch to reload mags from...

If not for the stupid Javelins, we could easily get away without Aquire

[Michael Dorosh]

Edit - you mean in the setup phase, yes?

[Blackmuzzle]

Originally posted by The Louch:

Although I see you point, I think Aquire already goes against the grain of the CM-series... next thing you know we'll be looking at a paper-doll layout of Sgt. Nubhead's TacVest layout of ammo and gear, telling him which pouch to reload mags from...

If not for the stupid Javelins, we could easily get away without Aquire

And yet Aquire is there, and we need it. Which reminds me, how do you pull back and reload your infantry's ammo without some sort of mechanism like this? I see what you're afraid of, but what we have here is far away from uniform outlines with selectable pockets

[Roter Stern]

Well, it would've been nice to be able to pickup *ammo* from fallen soliers... or rather have the squads do it automatically.

All too often I end up with a dead RPG team with a full backpack of good old HEAT, while an identical RPG team still in good health is resorting to throwing chickens at the enemy.

[Blackmuzzle]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Edit - you mean in the setup phase, yes?

You talking to me? If so, no, I mean in any phase of combat. Of course this should only work if the squad is sitting inside the vehicle. Basically the same restrictions as with the existing Aquire-functionality still apply.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Blackmuzzle:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Edit - you mean in the setup phase, yes?

You talking to me? If so, no, I mean in any phase of combat. Of course this should only work if the squad is sitting inside the vehicle. Basically the same restrictions as with the existing Aquire-functionality still apply. </font>

[Cpl Steiner]

It would be nice to be able to transfer ammo between units. For one, it would allow all squads to carry some 7.62mm ammo to resupply their MMG teams with in the field. MMGs run out fast and are integral to a platoon, so I think it is reasonable to expect other units in the platoon to carry some more ammo for them.

[Battlefront.com]

Blackmuzzle,

You can only transfer something to a Squad once it is in the vehicle. Since the unit itself uses the Acquire Command you've already designated which unit will get whatever it is you are attempting to grab. So I guess I don't understand what you're suggesting

The Louch,

Although I see you point, I think Aquire already goes against the grain of the CM-series... next thing you know we'll be looking at a paper-doll layout of Sgt. Nubhead's TacVest layout of ammo and gear, telling him which pouch to reload mags from...

Buuuuuulieve me, if we could find some way to get rid of the need for Acquire we'd do it in a heartbeat. But we couldn't figure out a smooth way to automate this functionality. It's not just the Javelins, it is also ammo. CMx1 didn't have this functionality and therefore units spent their ammo and were done. That wasn't too much of a problem due to the time compression problems of WeGo and Borg Spotting, but for CM;SF it was identified as a need very early on.

Cpl Steiner,

It would be nice to be able to transfer ammo between units

We had it on the drawing board but kept it off until we could see if there was a need. Didn't see a reason to put it in after a lot of testing. Would it be better to have it? Theoretically yes, but it would probably require yet another Command and we'd rather remove them if we could, not add them

Steve

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Buuuuuulieve me, if we could find some way to get rid of the need for Acquire we'd do it in a heartbeat. But we couldn't figure out a smooth way to automate this functionality.

Actually somone had a good idea (can't remember who), but they suggested that clicking on the icon could "acquire".

[Achim]

It would be nice if i choose the launcher, the game asks me how many missles.

If i choose the missle, the game takes the launcher automaticly.

There is no sense to grap the missles without the launcher, because u cant transfer the missles to another unit.

At the moment, i have to open the menu, grap the launcher.

I have to open the menu again and grap the missle.

[Battlefront.com]

Normal Dude,

It can't work because the Equipment is shown when you click on the vehicle, not when you click on the unit you want it moved to. If it were only possible to put one unit in a vehicle at a time, this wouldn't be a problem. It also is (from a UI standpoint) even less obvious than the Acquire Command, which we readily admit is not as intuitive as we would like it to be.

One of our testers suggested just assigning the Javelin to the Squad and be done with it. But since we simulate weight and bulk now, this isn't a good thing when you're trying to clear houses and have no need of a Javelin.

Achim,

This is something we can look into changing. I agree, it would require one less click to do it your way. And you are correct, there is never a time when this would cause problems. Thanks!

Steve

[PrezCartman]

Originally posted by Achim:

It would be nice if i choose the launcher, the game asks me how many missles.

If i choose the missle, the game takes the launcher automaticly.

There is no sense to grap the missles without the launcher, because u cant transfer the missles to another unit.

At the moment, i have to open the menu, grap the launcher.

I have to open the menu again and grap the missle.

Achim,

There are times at least in me playing where I want missiles and no launcher. I generally use HQ teams as my Jav launchers because I'd rather my squads have maximum firepower. This means that I will sometimes give a single HQ unit 9 Javelins if I know they're going to be in a really good position to provide long range support. I only need one launch unit and any extras you grab create two problems, one it takes up another equipment slot, and more importantly you now have more than one soldier firing the Javelin. This can be a big problem because now when you target something both Javelins will fire even if you only want one. It's a fast way to burn through some valuable ammo.

[Blackmuzzle]

Steve: What I suggest is the following:

You start the mission with a Stryker and some guys loaded in it. I fully understand that always adding a Jav to a Squad is not practical (nor realistic), but let's assume that you do want a Jav in this particular mission.

1) Click on the Stryker (since that's the guy having the good stuff)

2) Click on the image of the javelin launcher. A dialog pops up, asking you to which mounted squad to transfer it to.

I'm not talking about teleportation, obviously. Only squads sitting in the trunk are shown in this list.

3) Profit! Er... I mean, someone's holding a jav launcher. Note that even if there's only one squad in the trunk, you should still display the destination list to make it clear that the selected gear will be transfered to that particular unit

Want to transfer 2000 rounds of 5.56? No problem! Make sure the guys are sitting comfortably in the vehicle, select the vehicle, click the ammo box, a dialog pops up that allows you how many rounds to select (see part of the selection offered in my screenshot), when you click that a second little dialog opens (kinda like the windows start menu) to allow you to select which squad to give this present to.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

To you, it's probably intuitive that you have to select the squad where you need the goods at. I think that's the opposite of how it should be: When I want to transfer something from one unit to another, the logical way of doing that is to select the unit that HAS the item, and then somehow choose which unit should receive it.

To test my theory, I called my nephew and asked him how he thinks he could outfit a squad with a javelin. He tried the same thing I did: He selected the Stryker and then wondered why the javelin icon doesn't do anything.

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Well then, what are you talking about? You're suggesting a squad inside a vehicle Acquire a Javelin and then teleport it to another squad?

Of course not. I'm talking about getting rid of the AQUIRE button, and instead use something like shown on the screenshot to transfer gear from the vehicle to the mounted squad. Please disregard the "1st Squad" title of the currently selected unit... I did select the Stryker but it's probably not clear from the edited screenshot.

[ August 01, 2007, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Blackmuzzle ]

[Achim]

Originally posted by PrezCartman:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Achim:

It would be nice if i choose the launcher, the game asks me how many missles.

If i choose the missle, the game takes the launcher automaticly.

There is no sense to grap the missles without the launcher, because u cant transfer the missles to another unit.

At the moment, i have to open the menu, grap the launcher.

I have to open the menu again and grap the missle.

Achim,

There are times at least in me playing where I want missiles and no launcher. I generally use HQ teams as my Jav launchers because I'd rather my squads have maximum firepower. This means that I will sometimes give a single HQ unit 9 Javelins if I know they're going to be in a really good position to provide long range support. I only need one launch unit and any extras you grab create two problems, one it takes up another equipment slot, and more importantly you now have more than one soldier firing the Javelin. This can be a big problem because now when you target something both Javelins will fire even if you only want one. It's a fast way to burn through some valuable ammo. </font>

[OneShot]

Good idea BlackMuzzle. Actually when I first fired up the game before having a close look at the manual I tried to click the images of the launcher/missiles to assign them to a squad. After nothing happens and some reading in the manual I found out about the Aquire Command (till then I thought "Aquire" had something to do with aquiring targets). Anyway, using the already existing buttons would be nice, and it would do away with one command "Aquire" and at the same time make the UI more intuitive.

[ARRPEEGEE]

Well, it would've been nice to be able to pickup *ammo* from fallen soliers... or rather have the squads do it automatically.

THis is a tough one..One one hand, it makes no sense to have to send the mmg back to the stryker for more 762 when the squad right next to it has plenty, and on the other hand, the possibility of detaching one AT section and rounding up 8 javelins and going rambo on everyone..As long as there's a limit to what a section can carry, what a squad can carry, etc.

I'd settle for being able to just 'acquire' anything on the Syrian side for the right now of it - but..looks like that's getting looked into-nice.

[B00M$LANG]

Yeah, there MUST be a way to cross-level weapons and ammo from dead or injured to others in a squad or to another squad all together.

[MeatEtr]

I see what he is saying, it sounds like a good idea to get rid of the Acquire button. First off, is the Aquire button only fuction is to bring up the inventory/ammo list? If so, then I don't see why this idea can't do away with it.

Make the inventory slots of both vehicles and squads CLICKABLE. So when you click on either a item or empty slot in the inventory, the inventory/ammo list pops up.

This could possibly be taken a step further to allow squads to transfer items/ammo to each other out in the field. As long as they're close to one another, just click on the squads inventory that your taking from and add it to another squad. Just as his above screenshot shows.

[ August 01, 2007, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: MeatEtr ]

[PrezCartman]

Haha glad you guys liked the load up idea. I just realized as fast as the teams can fire the Javelins there's not much reason to spread them around. Except you must make sure that team is not in harm's way and is in a position with great LOS to potential enemy strong points. It will really hurt you to lose 9 Javs because the team got wiped out, almost made that mistake on a short battle this morning. Thankfully one guy survive and I just had to get him a new Launch unit but he still had the unit's 4 missiles. Lol must be a beast to carry 4 Javelins on his back.

But on a map like the Airfield in the campaign where you have 3 Platoons worth of missiles and good high buildings to place the launching teams on it just makes sense to have dedicated troops launching them. I guess you could always split an AT team from one your infantry squads but I prefer taking a Company or Battalion HQ since they're not going to be doing much close fighting anyway.

[Blackmuzzle]

Hmm, that's definitely a neat idea... squads sharing ammo... yes that does make sense. I've had an "empty "squad several times now, and having another fresh squad nearby didn't help because of the lack of such a feature...

[zwobot]

It turned out useful for me if a squad that has the Javelin and missiles left, could store them in the vehicle again (de-acquire so to speak) before clearing a building for example.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by zwobot:

It turned out useful for me if a squad that has the Javelin and missiles left, could store them in the vehicle again (de-acquire so to speak) before clearing a building for example.

Yup.

[Xipe66]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

We had it on the drawing board but kept it off until we could see if there was a need. Didn't see a reason to put it in after a lot of testing. Would it be better to have it? Theoretically yes, but it would probably require yet another Command and we'd rather remove them if we could, not add them

No, it would be an extension of the already existing Aquire command, maybe based on range.

This also has to do with the employment of heavy weapons in general - if the carrier of those are killed and the weapon is fine (and Javelins and other weapons are vital) you still don't get to use it. An enchanced Aquire would fix this.