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Afghanistan: 1979-1989


Amedeo

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Am I wrong or, with some visual modding, the Red vs. Red feature of CMSF will allow to simulate some of the Soviet-Afghan war clashes?

The BTR & BMP supported regular troops toting AK-74s and other "modern" (for the '80s) stuff are there, as well as the AKM & RPG-7 armed militia.

If the editor is able to handle reasonably "rough" terrain I think the conversion is just there...

Comments?

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Interesting point. I was afraid this was going to be another lame thread for lobbying pet wars, glad I was wrong.

Quite a creative idea. Now, why anyone would want to simulate that conflict is another story... ;)

Sounds like it would be largely possible for those that did. Probably work out more convincingly than DFDR in the CMBO days.

I am wondering if we can use it to recreate the invasion of Grenada, and some of the battle scenes from the film HEARTBREAK RIDGE...

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Originally posted by Ivan Drago:

There was a website and/or book with a whole bunch of Soviet missions in Afhgan, some successful and others totally FUBAR - the point is there were a lot of scenarios mentioned.

They were all around company-size too, so probably would make for perfect battles.

Except for the lack of helicopters :(

That's kind of what drove my comment above, the idea of lack of sources. I am happily corrected - but do the website/book actually detail enemy forces, or just the friendly side stuff?
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Originally posted by Ivan Drago:

There was a website and/or book with a whole bunch of Soviet missions in Afhgan, some successful and others totally FUBAR - the point is there were a lot of scenarios mentioned.

They were all around company-size too, so probably would make for perfect battles.

Except for the lack of helicopters :(

Grau's The Bear Went Over the Mountain

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/books/Books%20-%201996/Bear%20Went%20Over%20Mountain%20-%20Aug%2096/BrOrMn.pdf

Although, not to my knowledge, available in *.pdf format, Afghan Guerrilla Warfare: In the Words of the Mujahideen Fighters should be easily acquired and is the companion to the above.

http://www.amazon.com/Afghan-Guerilla-Warfare-Ahmad-Jalali/dp/190257947X/sr=8-3/qid=1172460827/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/103-1830287-5103026?ie=UTF8&s=books

[ February 25, 2007, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: jjhouston ]

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thanks jj

amazon.com reviews

This is, by far, the most thorough treatment in english on the Soviet-Afghan war. The Soviet attempts at a heavy-handed approach to counter-insurgency only backfires in the end. A lesson few seem to understand. This brilliant work describes how the Afghan guerrilla tactics evolved with each new Soviet attempt to thwart them. The brutality on both sides is beyond comprehension and reminds us how evil is war.

The Bear Went over the Mountain, July 14, 2004

To capture the lessons their tactical leaders learned in Afghanistan & to explain the change in tactics that followed, the Frunze Military Academy in Russia compiled this book for their command & general staff combat arms officers. The lessons are valuable not just for Russian officers, but for the tactical training of platoon, company & battalion leaders of any nation likely to engage in conflicts involving civil war, guerrilla forces & rough terrain. This is a book dealing with the starkest features of the unforgiving landscape of tactical combat: casualties & death, adaptation, & survival. Provides an intimate look at the boring but brutal business of counterinsurgency. Maps.

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Given the small-scale nature of CM:SF compared to current CM incarnations, and the emphasis on Urban Operations, I think the Lebanese Civil War would be a more suitable subject for CM:SF.

I am hoping that some of the Uncons will be typical guerilla fighters like those that have fought in Lebanon for decades. You know the sort of thing, head-scarf covering most of head but for a slit for the eyes, jeans, trainers, t-shirt, combat harness with ammo pouches etc. Wish I could find a photo on the web to show what I mean.

As the Syrians were actually in Lebanon for a long time, they might be able to participate in some scenarios as themselves. My history is a little vague though - did Syria actually fire any shots in anger in the Lebanes Civil War or were they largely onlookers?

[ February 27, 2007, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

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Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

Given the small-scale nature of CM:SF compared to current CM incarnations, and the emphasis on Urban Operations, I think the Lebanese Civil War would be a more suitable subject for CM:SF.

I am hoping that some of the Uncons will be typical guerilla fighters like those that have fought in Lebanon for decades. You know the sort of thing, head-scarf covering most of head but for a slit for the eyes, jeans, trainers, t-shirt, combat harness with ammo pouches etc. Wish I could find a photo on the web to show what I mean.

As the Syrians were actually in Lebanon for a long time, they might be able to participate in some scenarios as themselves. My history is a little vague though - did Syria actually fire any shots in anger in the Lebanes Civil War or were they largely onlookers?

IS there an emphasis on urban ops? Is that something you've read, or are you basing that on the handful of screenshots we've seen?

I ask because what you've described could apply equally to simulating Native uprisings in Canada, ala the Oka Crisis. Heavily armed Mohawk "warriors" using whatever automatic weapons they can get their hands on.

I want to see the OPP cruiser mod...

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Just saw a cool Russian movie "9th legion". It was about para units fighting in afghanistan. It is suposed to be based on true story where a company was left and forgotten behind at a desolate plateu to face hordes of afghans charging them. I liked it. Would be a cool scenario. Although the pair of hinds saving the last few survivors at the end would have to be left out then.....theirs no hinds in this game?

No Hinds, thats uncool. A hind is the very incarnation of deadly machinery, like the us m-10 warthog.

[ February 28, 2007, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: chanss ]

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Great proposal - and that "The Bear Went Over the Mountain" is one of the best documents for CM-size scenario design that I've seen...

I also agree that the Hind would be nice to have (and Syria is supposed to have 90 of them). It's simply the meanest looking piece of military machinery ever assembled (the He-111 is a contender - mainly as a symbol for nazi bombers though). I guess helos will be rather hard to implement well on a CM sized map though...

/Mazex

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Originally posted by chanss:

Just saw a cool Russian movie "9th legion". It was about para units fighting in afghanistan. It is suposed to be based on true story where a company was left and forgotten behind at a desolate plateu to face hordes of afghans charging them. I liked it. Would be a cool scenario. Although the pair of hinds saving the last few survivors at the end would have to be left out then.....theirs no hinds in this game?

No Hinds, thats uncool. A hind is the very incarnation of deadly machinery, like the us m-10 warthog.

As I understand, there are no aircraft actually modeled in the game. The U.S. side will get air support in the form of requested airstrikes, but the aircraft will be "off map" like the 155 artillery. Could someone verify that this is correct?
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Originally posted by Alan8325:

As I understand, there are no aircraft actually modeled in the game. The U.S. side will get air support in the form of requested airstrikes, but the aircraft will be "off map" like the 155 artillery. Could someone verify that this is correct?

That's how I understand it to be.
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