Any chance for a special forces title?

[c3k]

I'm thinking about small teams, two men or so, with special weapons. I'd be interested in seeing how a small SEAL detachment could handle itself. Suppressed weapons, excellent camo, every man linked with a comm system, etc.

This seems doable in the CMx2 engine - which is my way of complimenting BF.C on creating a flexible game system. (v1.08 is playing very well.)

Thanks,

Ken

[SgtMuhammed]

What exactly are your expectations for this?

An SF team against an unprepared enemy could probably pull off a nice little snatch-grab op but if you are expecting some sort of Rambo thing you would be sadly dissappointed. These guys aren't magic, just good.

SF teams used in a mainforce roll constantly find themselves in over their heads.

[Sequoia]

This was the word in December '05 but I doubt it's changed.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

There might be SF guys in CM:SF, but in support of general forces. In other words, there might be a handful of SF guys in a scenario. If they are included they are not there to be Rambos, there are there to be like the real SF guys are... as a force multiplyer. Observation of the enemy, CAS, and other things are what a frontline commander would typically expect to see from SF the rare time they see them. Generally they wouldn't, and so neither should the player. Mogadishu was not at all a typical situation so take that one right out of the "but... " type arguments

Rangers, SEALs, and other Special Ops forces are absolutely not part of the plan for CM:SF. We don't see a Module of SF being interesting enough to do. Don't get me wrong, what they do is EXTREMELY interesting, but it is the sort of thing that is better suited to FPS games than what we are doing.

Steve

[c3k]

Hmmm,

I'm thinking, or WAS thinking, about the various situations which have popped up in recent years, especially in Afghanistan. In these, the SF units were surprised by an adversary which was quite tenacious and arrived unexpectedly. There have been several very tough firefights resulting from these encounters.

As for the Modadishu reference, a Ranger company supporting a Delta Force team versus a large uncon force would be of interest.

I am not thinking about a Rambo-esque style FPS.

Regards,

Ken

[MikeyD]

Special forces, the way I imagine them, are primarily stealth. You don't get noticed. You call in your artillery strikes from a spider hole on a distant hill. Not exactly fodder for exciting gameplay. But that's old-school. No telling what they're up to in Iraq these days. In the Fallugha battles you saw these guys with miniguns mounted on their armored Humvees. They've even fielded their own Pandur 6x6 armored cars! The biggest impediment to including special forces these days may be you'd never be able to get a firm grasp on their structure!

[JohnO]

I would rather have a Ranger Company first before asking about SF guys.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Special forces, the way I imagine them, are primarily stealth. You don't get noticed. You call in your artillery strikes from a spider hole on a distant hill. ...

I could be wrong with this, but didn't took the SEALs high casualties in Panama, because they had NOT been used in a stealth role? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW, what is the role of the US Rangers today? I didn't even knew that they are part of the special forces!?

[Clavicula_Nox]

Out of the available US SOF, Rangers are the only ones that would make any sense in the game engine. I don't see how a 12 man ODA would survive very long, I also don't see there being much room to simulate the different things that SOF does. The thing that I see being simulated most are simple cordon and searches where you have your SF/SOF assault a building while supporting infantry create a perimeter.

Doesn't take very long and can already be done with split MOUT squads.

BTW, what is the role of the US Rangers today? I didn't even knew that they are part of the special forces!?

Depends on which Battalion. Of the 3 line battalions, each has it's own AO. 75th Ranger Regiment is a subordinate unit of USASOC - US Army Special Operations Command, which is also the parent command of Special Forces Command. 75th Regt is not part of Special Forces, but it is part of special operations forces.

The primary role of the 75th Regiment is largely to act as a light infantry force used for shock raids.

[YankeeDog]

At the CM scale, there really isn't much practical difference between a 6-man SEAL team, and a highly trained, experienced 6-man team of any other US Infantry. Just set experience and leadership to Elite, make sure they've got the best of equipment, etc., and off you go.

If you need the Arty/Air Strike capability of many SF teams, just use one of the various command units (Plt. HQ, Coy HQ, etc.), depending on the exact size team you want and again, Set Exp. to Elite.

SF units vary what equipment they carry a lot depending on the exact mission, so you can mix and match what's already in CM to get what would be right for the given situation. For Example, Plt/Coy HQ + Sniper team makes a decent SF team simulate.

A true SF simulator would be a totally different game and, as noted, would be more about NOT shooting or being seen unless absolutely necessary.

Properly done, might be interesting. But would be nothing like CMSF.

Cheers,

YD

[handihoc]

The Fighting Seabee has created Special Forces missions for SF. Obviously, they ain't quite real Specials, but they're very fine scenarios, and highly enjoyable.

"Afghani Stan" is one, as is "Warlords in a Barrel". The first is available at www.CMMODS.com - not sure where he put Warlords, but if you ask him nicely I'm sure he'll spill.

There're a couple of others, too, but I can't remember the titles.

[c3k]

Yeah, I'm not trying to simulate a Richard Marcinko style op (Doom on you! ), but, like JohnO mentioned, some Rangers might be nice...

Ken

[ChrisND]

If Special Forces (other than Rangers) are involved in a CMSF-esque scenario, something has gone wrong. If anything, the Red Player would be fighting local forces trained and led by SF (That is actually an interesting scenario idea that can be done!).

Even for direct action SOF missions, I don't think CMSF is set up to handle that correctly.

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

If Special Forces (other than Rangers) are involved in a CMSF-esque scenario, something has gone wrong. If anything, the Red Player would be fighting local forces trained and led by SF (That is actually an interesting scenario idea that can be done!).

Even for direct action SOF missions, I don't think CMSF is set up to handle that correctly.

In the first scenario, it would just be like a company command, or something.

I agree completely with the second statement.

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Normal Dude:

If Special Forces (other than Rangers) are involved in a CMSF-esque scenario, something has gone wrong. If anything, the Red Player would be fighting local forces trained and led by SF (That is actually an interesting scenario idea that can be done!).

Even for direct action SOF missions, I don't think CMSF is set up to handle that correctly.

In the first scenario, it would just be like a company command, or something.

</font>I think when I am done with my campaign I am going to have a go at modeling that for Afghanistan.

[MikeyD]

I've mixed American-and-Syrian and American-and-combatant forces a couple times and it operates like a charm. Just switch to Red-vs-Red battle while building your scenario , add some Syrians to your Blue force mix then switch back to Blue-vs-Red. Funny thing is, i don't think the game was meant to be able to mix forces! I'm eternally grateful to BFC for not bothering to 'fix' that particular 'bug'

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I've mixed American-and-Syrian and American-and-combatant forces a couple times and it operates like a charm. Just switch to Red-vs-Red battle while building your scenario , add some Syrians to your Blue force mix then switch back to Blue-vs-Red. Funny thing is, i don't think the game was meant to be able to mix forces! I'm eternally grateful to BFC for not bothering to 'fix' that particular 'bug'

I didn't know you could do that, thanks for sharing.

[the Fighting Seabee]

Originally posted by handihoc:

The Fighting Seabee has created Special Forces missions for SF. Obviously, they ain't quite real Specials, but they're very fine scenarios, and highly enjoyable.

"Afghani Stan" is one, as is "Warlords in a Barrel". The first is available at www.CMMODS.com - not sure where he put Warlords, but if you ask him nicely I'm sure he'll spill.

There're a couple of others, too, but I can't remember the titles.

Well, actually "Afghani Stan" is my only special ops mission. "Warlords in a barrel" was someone else's attempt (which was quite fun). "Zarqawi's Last Day" wasn't much of a mission, just reliving a great moment:).

Anyways, with a little careful planning and attention to detail, fun SF missions can be created and played with CMSF. And with some new SF skins... boom, SF mission.

In the current wars we are fighting, the SF guys aren't necessarily all doing "Splinter Cell" stuff. They go out and fight just like the G.I.'s. But, an entire expansion dedicated to only SF wouldn't be all that great. I fully support Steve's idea that some SF troops will be included as support elements (you guys better freakin' not forget about the Seabees come Marine module time! ). But yes, as long as Battlefront adds in some extra guys, us scenario designers will use them!

Edit: Btw, play "Afghani Stan" if you don't think SF can be done in CMSF.

[the Fighting Seabee]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I've mixed American-and-Syrian and American-and-combatant forces a couple times and it operates like a charm. Just switch to Red-vs-Red battle while building your scenario , add some Syrians to your Blue force mix then switch back to Blue-vs-Red. Funny thing is, i don't think the game was meant to be able to mix forces! I'm eternally grateful to BFC for not bothering to 'fix' that particular 'bug'

COOL! I didn't know that either. I will utilize that "bug" in my next SF mission. Thanks MikeyD.

[Clavicula_Nox]

Edit: Btw, play "Afghani Stan" if you don't think SF can be done in CMSF.

I've played it and thought it was good. I still don't feel that most SOF could be represented faithfully in the game besides being extra good shooters with higher morale and fitness.

[M1A1TC]

I would love to see in addition to Rangers, SF and Delta guys, Private Military Contractors like Blackwater represented

They would represent Blue Uncon Forces

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I've mixed American-and-Syrian and American-and-combatant forces a couple times and it operates like a charm. Just switch to Red-vs-Red battle while building your scenario , add some Syrians to your Blue force mix then switch back to Blue-vs-Red. Funny thing is, i don't think the game was meant to be able to mix forces! I'm eternally grateful to BFC for not bothering to 'fix' that particular 'bug'

That's really, really good to know! Thanks a lot!

-FMB

[SgtMuhammed]

There was an interesting fight in northern Iraq during OIF. A bunch of SF with Javelins and some Kurdish militia clobbered an Iraqi armor attack. I am planning a scenario on it just to see if it was even worth playing.

[ChrisND]

I guess I'm being a bit hypocritical, because one of the scenarios in my campaign involves SF. But their role in the scenario is limited.

I guess I could see, as a small feature in a module, a generic SF squad added that functions like infantry but with different weapons / abilities (like being able to assault move, yet call in fire support / CAS effectively).

[MikeyD]

Wow, alot of people didn't seem to know you could mix forces. I guess they haven't picked up my scenarios at cmmods.com! In my 'Rescue on the Outskirts' you're tasked to save some 'Blackpond contractors' (Syrian special forces playing Blue). in 'Neighborhood Blood Feud' a U.S. Humvee patrol stumbles into a Sunni vs Shia battle... on the Red side!

I suppose a 'Special Forces' Afghanistan (2002) scenario would largely be Red versus Red combatants with a Blue JTAC attached to rain 2000 lb bombs on the opposition.

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Wow, alot of people didn't seem to know you could mix forces. I guess they haven't picked up my scenarios at cmmods.com! In my 'Rescue on the Outskirts' you're tasked to save some 'Blackpond contractors' (Syrian special forces playing Blue). in 'Neighborhood Blood Feud' a U.S. Humvee patrol stumbles into a Sunni vs Shia battle... on the Red side!

I suppose a 'Special Forces' Afghanistan (2002) scenario would largely be Red versus Red combatants with a Blue JTAC attached to rain 2000 lb bombs on the opposition.

I don't play SF that much, CMAK is currently consuming my war gaming time.

Anaconda would probably be limited, like you said with just fire support, other than that, I couldn't say. There were engagements with ODAs leading fighters against Terry Taliban, but I can't say how common they were, or how large of a scale.