panzermartin Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I think working on the graphics and working on the code are two seperate procedures...and yes they have done a superb work in the 3d visuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by kipanderson: Hi, Michael Dorosh posted, “That's just it, dalem. The fanbase has been shifted from guys like us, to kids like "Angryson" (see his responses in the Uncanny Valley thread, then look at his profile). Like Steve, there's no reason to have anger, just sudden realization that the business model has changed, and so has the design philosophy. You asked why there are no more "grog" discussions on the forum. They're not the target anymore. The solo players who don't expect much from the AI and don't interact with others are the target.” That made me laugh … as Grogs go I doubt any here could equal me… including Michael. I was working out armour penetration equations twenty years ago and getting them right… I know the archives of Tank Museum better than their curator . And can do the same for any era of armour. Have a collection of over five thousand photos from the Eastern Front and hundreds of books/manuals on the subject. But no matter…. And I love the game… CMSF is all I wished for . A more detailed CMX1…perfect! However, it was released prematurely… there are too many bugs. But Steve has now been upfront about that and why it happened. It will be fixed. CMX1 will go down as the greatest series of wargames ever, because they were so ground breaking. But happily fro me… CMX2 is a far better engine. All good fun, All the best, Kip. But none of that means you know anything about making a company-level wargame. In fact, our past discussions on the board over the years has convinced me you couldn't, mostly because you have no interest in doing so. You've confessed to being interested in brigade-level operations more than battalion level tactics, unless I've been reading you wrong all these years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco: I don't think for a moment that BFC are looking to pitch their games at a different market. Will CMSF pull in RT people who wouldn't have touched WEGO? Of course it will. But if BFC were to release CMx2WW2 in twelve months time with the engine improvements we're promised the reaction here would be markedly different. I don't think anyone is suggesting a "sell-out", but you admit yourself the pitch is to a different group of gamers now. I suppose I am guilty of associating RT with less mature gamers, which isn't necessarily true. I just wonder what long term effects that might have on the franchise as a whole. Ruminating, is all. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertston Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by panzermartin: Yeah, CMSF is a C&C clone..please this is laughable. I don't think anybody has seriously claimed that it is. But 'click-fest' is inherent, to a degree, to the nature of the game.. not so much the frantic clicking of Starcraft maybe, but the need to whiz about with perfect precision using the camera controls and fast access to commands. The only exception I can think of is Close Combat which illustrates the point quite well - being in 2D navigation about the playmap is just so much quicker and simpler. Obviously with the ability to pause that isn't a problem in SP, but in MP it must be unless some similar feature is introduced. It would be perfectly do-able, you could maybe ration each player a certain amount of pause-time over the course of the game to be used as they see fit - the length of time being agreed beforehand by the players. One advantage about the WEGO/RT combo is that there is significant potential for exploring the ground between the two; somebody has already suggested WEGO with shorter turn lengths, for example, which I think would work great in TCP/IP WEGO. If, of course, there WAS TCP/IP WEGO.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Double post. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DesertFox Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by kipanderson: Hi, But happily fro me… CMX2 is a far better engine. All good fun, All the best, Kip. Hi Kip, I´m with you with that sentiment. I was very sceptical after the initial reviews and the total failure of the engine to run on my ATI/VISTA Notebook. However on my NVIDIA/VISTA desktop it works, still a little sluggish due to 8800 GTS problems but you can work with it. Although I´m only 5 days into CM:SF right now and it still has a lot of rough edges and bugs which need dire attention I´m confident that BTS will manage to polish the product up to its full beauty. Presently I´ve decided to start creating some North German Plain Stuff just for my own fun. Seeing a reinforced BMP regiment attack the VRV is impressive stuff. I think 2 or 3 more patches and the game will really show its full potential. cheers Helge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thewood: One of things I am still preplexed over is the fact that the interior of vehicles are modelled in such detail, yet BFC says they had to leave many things out to satisfy financial and contractual committments. Why spend so much time on the interior of a Stryker, when that Stryker can't find its ass with a flashlight and two hands. Once again, the same complaint I had about TOW. That's apples and oranges, though, isn't it? I thought Dan was the 3D modeller and Charles the guy coding what the models do. If you have the time to make the models, go for it. They look great. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltan Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ...The fanbase has been shifted from guys like us, to kids like "Angryson" (see his responses in the Uncanny Valley thread, then look at his profile).... I am feeling old. I have t-shirts older than that kid. Regards, Feltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritzthemoose Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 [/qb] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by fritzthemoose: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />KID? Yeah, I'm a 28 year old kid with more combat experience than you will ever have. Instead of manning a desk, dreaming about panzers and playing war with cardboard counters I'm actually out there firing rounds in anger at the enemies of my country.reminds me of my grandfather. he was a paratrooper and in WWII from the first day till the last. has no clue what really happened in WWII. Does not even know exactly where he fought. Somewhere in the south of the eastern front is the type of answer u get. but he knows that he defended his country against its enemies. he would make a great guy for evaluating a computer game lol </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Feltan: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ...The fanbase has been shifted from guys like us, to kids like "Angryson" (see his responses in the Uncanny Valley thread, then look at his profile).... I am feeling old. I have t-shirts older than that kid. Regards, Feltan </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Not so far off what my first impressions were. On a score of 1-10 I would rate it somewhere between 6-7. - Graphics are not that good by today's standards - UI is ackward to use - A lot of good stuff is left out or missing with no apparent reasons It just does not have same kind of spark that the earlier versions did at their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardstick Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Feltan: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: ...The fanbase has been shifted from guys like us, to kids like "Angryson" (see his responses in the Uncanny Valley thread, then look at his profile).... I am feeling old. I have t-shirts older than that kid. Regards, Feltan </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco: I don't think for a moment that BFC are looking to pitch their games at a different market. Will CMSF pull in RT people who wouldn't have touched WEGO? Of course it will. But if BFC were to release CMx2WW2 in twelve months time with the engine improvements we're promised the reaction here would be markedly different. I don't think anyone is suggesting a "sell-out", but you admit yourself the pitch is to a different group of gamers now. I suppose I am guilty of associating RT with less mature gamers, which isn't necessarily true. I just wonder what long term effects that might have on the franchise as a whole. Ruminating, is all. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I will never buy another BFC product until it has been released for many months and is patched or in the bargan bin.Pretty harsh, but considering the state in which the BF's recent releases (CM:SF and Theatre of War) came out the conclusion which you very easily end up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipanderson Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Michael, Yes… you remember correctly, I have no interest in what I would call a “company commanders game”. I like to see the battlefield from the perspective of the squad leader/AFV commander and have the option of all the micromanagement that goes with that. But because I am greedy, and think it fun, I then like to play operational scale battles in that detail . Break-Through Operations with CMBB… they do work expect for the engineer modelling which was a problem . The Mother of All Squad Leader battles. And I am in heaven! BTW… RT is fine, but I do need to be able to pause… Helge, Great to hear from you… I saw your post on the scenarios forum. We really do think alike on CMSF… like exactly the same sort of near OPFORs type games. I would be hugely interested in seeing any maps/scenarios you comes up with. Waaaay back in the mists of time you were the first to use the potential of the CMBO map editor to its full in your great series of early Normandy maps… I immediately copied your methods . All good stuff, All the best, Kip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by thewood: One of things I am still preplexed over is the fact that the interior of vehicles are modelled in such detail, yet BFC says they had to leave many things out to satisfy financial and contractual committments. Why spend so much time on the interior of a Stryker, when that Stryker can't find its ass with a flashlight and two hands. Once again, the same complaint I had about TOW. That's apples and oranges, though, isn't it? I thought Dan was the 3D modeller and Charles the guy coding what the models do. If you have the time to make the models, go for it. They look great. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feltan Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by fritzthemoose: KID? Yeah, I'm a 28 year old kid with more combat experience than you will ever have. Instead of manning a desk, dreaming about panzers and playing war with cardboard counters I'm actually out there firing rounds in anger at the enemies of my country... [/QB] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardstick Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Dude, I was talking to dorosh, for a bunch of guys preaching about maturity you sure are showing your collective ass's. Let it go already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Slap, I was not talking specifically about interiors, just the level of detail in some areas, whiole others areas lacking or borken on release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by Angryson: Let it go already. I agree ...it serves no purpose. Plenty of game problems to focus on. Regards, Gunz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Yes… you remember correctly, I have no interest in what I would call a “company commanders game”. I like to see the battlefield from the perspective of the squad leader/AFV commanderThat's exactly the kinda game that is goign to be the next hit in tactical gaming. A seamless integration of a shooter and tactical decision making. And it was discussed and trashed during the developement stage of the CM:SF on these forums. Heavy board game traditions still is the burden I guess. [ August 12, 2007, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: track ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertston Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by track: That's exactly the kinda game that is goign to be the next hit in tactical gaming. A seamless integration of a shooter and tactical decision making. And it was discussed and trashed during the developement stage of the CM:SF on these forums. Heavy board game traditions still is the burden I guess. You reach a point at which the game could no longer be 'Combat Mission'. I also doubt that BF have the resources to deliver such a game; it would have to be a project for a larger (and I suspect rather better funded) team. To make money such a game would have to be a mainstream 'hit', and the cost of developing (or probably even licensing?) the sort of graphics engine needed for that these days might well be prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Originally posted by track: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Yes… you remember correctly, I have no interest in what I would call a “company commanders game”. I like to see the battlefield from the perspective of the squad leader/AFV commanderThat's exactly the kinda game that is goign to be the next hit in tactical gaming. A seamless integration of a shooter and tactical decision making. And it was discussed and trashed during the developement stage of the CM:SF on these forums. Heavy board game traditions still is the burden I guess. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 You reach a point at which the game could no longer be 'Combat Mission Well look at CM:SF - pretty much anything can be called Combat Mission. But such a game/simulation is not that far away anymore. Just wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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