Those (not so) backward Syrians--and their powerful friends

[C'Rogers]

Those that believe, almost as a rule instead of as an exception, in conspiracy theories suffer form this same psychological defect. Perhaps it is even a brain defect rather than a learning disorder.

This post is more in relation to the above post by Steve, and in general what is the nature of conspiracy theories. I have no expert knowledge on this subject beyond my interest in psychological matters but will try my best to make a solid reasoned argument.

Conspiracy theories can arise and be believed by someone for many different reasons. Many sane and rational people fall victim to a conspiracy theory at some point in their life.

However this does not mean everyone who believes a conspiracy theory is a conspiracy theorist. A conspiracy theorist is generally defined as someone who believes that our entire society is covering up massively important, and multiple, secrets.

What causes a person to believe a conspiracy theory? There are multiple reasons why a person will fall for a conspiracy theory (with there being multiple reasons it being that much harder to point out individual traits that lead to person taking such extreme believes).

1) Paranoia, schizophrenia, or other mental illness. For obvious reasons a schizophrenic or person afflicted with a similar mental illness is far more likely to fall for a conspiracy theory.

2) Exaggeration of facts. Many of the things John has sited do in fact have some basis in fact. Yes governments around the world have done research in some crazy things (which goes more to prove the foolishness of world leaders than outlandish technology in my opinion). It is easy to, for example, have a somewhat skeptical interest in ESP, and then hear that the US government did research in ESP (which I think they did in the 80s and when it came to the light they were deservedly embarrassed about wasting money), for the skeptical interest to suddenly become a believer that it is a fact.

After all, in world with nuclear weapons, many of these 'technologies' don't seem so outlandish.

3)Anti-social/superior believes. Most people think they are smarter than the average person, some think they are considerably smarter. What better way to prove that you are more intelligent and independent than the average person if you 'discover' that a commonly held belief is total fiction.

4) Hate. Hate is probably the most common reason why an otherwise sane person will fall for a conspiracy theory. It is much easier to believe the absolute worst in someone you dislike (especially in politics).

A good example of this would be 9/11 conspiracies and hatred of President George W. Bush. Many people hate Bush and think he is one of the worst Presidents ever (perhaps justifiably, perhaps not, that isn't the point). As they already hate this individual it becomes far easier for them to believe that he would do something like orchestrate the destruction of buildings and deaths of many people within his own country, facts to the contrary. In a similar vein is the people Steve mentioned who believed Clinton was willing to sell out America.

A combination of the latter three points can generally be attributed to why a person falls for a conspiracy theory.

[xerxes]

Of course we do, but we won't use them* because it would bankrupt the military industrial complex which relies on selling us stuff that gets used up.

* I can't reveal what "them" is but I can tell you it is a biologically based technology that in many ways makes traditional "war" an anachronism.

[akd]

Originally posted by xerxes:

Of course we do, but we won't use them* because it would bankrupt the military industrial complex which relies on selling us stuff that gets used up.

* I can't reveal what "them" is but I can tell you it is a biologically based technology that in many ways makes traditional "war" an anachronism.

*rabid squirrel armies

[John Kettler]

C'Rogers,

When I first got this thread rolling, I was trying to point out a number of things the Syrians could do

to greatly improve their military capabilities, including simple devices which would probably cost them less than a hundred bucks a pop but which could wreak havoc on our fancy all pervasive C4ISR. I also discussed such things as broadband obscurants and showed that they were real and available. From there, I noted the emergence of a powerful new alliance, looked at some of the weaponry Syria was apparently already getting as a result, then went on from there to indicate ascending levels of other nastiness which could be supplied if desired, including scalar weapon fires from inside Russia to designated target zones in Syria, as the upper end of a nonnuclear but powerful intervention by Russia. This in turn led to discussing what scalar weapons were, to a first order description of how they worked, related Tesla research (including Project Rainbow), and inevitably, antigravity, terrestrial and ET.

It's been like drinking not from a firehose, but the city mains for some, and lots of buttons have been pushed in the process, but my intention throughout has been to show people where the real tech base is these days, and what can be done to

unhinge the taken for granted U.S. information superiority, let alone the impervious tanks, owning the skies, etc. I argue that if you don't know where things stood fifty plus years ago, it's very difficult to get your mind around what we have now. And if I can't get people to recognize such fundamental tech transfers from Germany as the P 1101 to F-86, Lippisch's delta wing planform (F-102/F-106), Vampir to M1 sniperscope, 28cm K5E to the 280mm Atomic Annie, etc., then how am I ever going to get them to grok the connection between closely guarded German saucer technology and what we're flying today? I'd be willing to bet most don't know about the Horten flying wing to B-2 connection or the fact that the Germans had RAM on their snorkel towers on late war U-boats, either.

To answer your question directly, the evidence indicates that we have the weapons you describe and that they have seen vigorous employment in the past in the Gulf War. From a game standpoint, though, they'd probably be deemed strategic in nature, hence out of scope, and too gross (on several levels, including terminal effect visuals!), but that would only matter if you could get Steve to admit they exist in the first place. Let's just say I'm not sanguine on that score.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Thomm]

Originally posted by John Kettler:How am I ever going to get them to grok the connection between closely guarded German saucer technology and what we're flying today?

Well, after seeing that strange "Silver Bug" document I understand why we do not fly saucers today, as (apparently) many engineers did. After all, the current US air-superiority fighter F22A does look very, very much like a conventional airplane!

Originally posted by John Kettler:

I'd be willing to bet most don't know about the Horten flying wing to B-2 connection.

Both are flying wings. Guess that makes the connection pretty obvious?!

Best regards,

Thomm

[juan_gigante]

Whoa, whoa, back that train up!

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

I've from time to time told my kids to eat carrots because they are good for their eyes. I do it because I want to tell them to eat well, but I was told it by my parents when I was akid.

It actually dates back to WW2 when it was the government line, that RAF pilots were eating carrots so thay could see better at night. However that was just a cover to try to mask the fact that we were having success against night attacks because of radar.

Is this true? My dad made me eat a carrot every day for about 10 years straight, saying it would help my eyes. Was I lied to?

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by juan_gigante:

Is this true? My dad made me eat a carrot every day for about 10 years straight, saying it would help my eyes. Was I lied to?

I think the wartime propaganda part is true. However, I think eating carots is still good for your eyes because they are a source of vitamin A, which helps your eyes to function properly.

The part that is wrong is that eating carots will somehow make your eyes perform better than normal. It's really just a vitamin deficiency thing - i.e. if you don't get enough vitamin A, from whatever source, your eyes will suffer, as far as I am aware.

[John Kettler]

Here's a link to the Saab jet fighter, the J-29 Tunnan, I was trying to recall. Please note what's said in the article about its ancestry and who got what.

http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/j29.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[Thomm]

John,

Nobody doubts that the Germans had some great ideas and excellent scientists.

But that does not automatically mean that *every* idea the Germans came up with was that great!

"Land battleships" and "Flying Saucers" come to my mind!

Best regards,

Thomm

[John Kettler]

Rollstoy,

I misspoke on the Horten matter. What I should've said is that most people have never heard of the Horten flying wings, yet their resemblance to the B-2 is much greater than the YB-49 had, particularly in the fuselage design and wing layout.

The Land Battleship is a fine example of the German bigger is better mania run beyond amok, but the evidence in favor of functioning German saucers is considerable. According to a guy named Rudolph Lusar, who worked in the German Patent Office and went on to write the two volume set GERMAN SECRET WEAPONS OF WORLD WAR II, he was there when the Americans systematically looted every saucer related patent they could find. He apparently managed to save a couple, which wound up in his books. I found a bunch of photocopies,

so can cite some of what appeared after the War in German newspapers:

DAS NEUE ZEITALTER August 20, 1955

subhead: Die USA und Russland produzieren sie!

title : UFOs gibt es nicht! Wohl aber: Flugscheiben am laufenden band!

The article has good side illustrations of three different types of German saucers, and it appears to have a section dealing with full scale production of some craft (presume that's what Serienfabrikation (serial production?) means).

BILD AM SONTAG February 7, 1957

subhead: Erst heute luftet sich der Schleier:

title: Wunderwaffen 45

Smack dab in the middle of the page appears the subhead Untertassen (one of several German terms for flying saucers)

And here's one where somebody on the ball in Germany remembered seeing something in THE DENVER POST, November 9, 1947

Deutsche UFOs 1947/48 einwandfrei beobachtet: Geheime Produktion der "fliegenden untertassen" war schon angelaufen. There's also a sidebar piece:

Beschriebungen und Einzelheiten, die erstaunenlassen--Das Ratselrai?? um die Blaupausen in Spanien Wo wird jetzt produziert?

HEIM UND WELT Nr. 14 Date unknown but from 50s

subhead: Dem Geheimnis der "fliegenden untertassen" auf der Spur

title: 'Versuchsballons' anderer Planeten?

A full page with a sidebar, this one appears to be pretty technical. Even with my meager German I can tell that performance figures are given, radar interactions are discussed, and that there's some discussion of what appears to be electrical propulsion (Elektrogerate). The sidebar shows and describes some of the German designs.

You might also find this November 7, 1957 telexed interview (sent marked URGENT fm SAC, Detroit to FBI HQ) with a former German POW who came to this country in 1951 as a Displaced Person pertinent.

"...THAT WHILE A POW DURING NINETEEN FORTYFOUR

OBSERVED A VEHICLE DESCRIBED AS CIRCULAR IN

SHAPE, SEVENTY FIVE TO ONE HUNDRED YARDS IN

DIAMETER, APPROXIMATELY FOURTEEN FEET HIGH. THE

VEHICLE WAS OBSERVED TO SLOWLY RISE VERTICALLY TO

HEIGHT SUFFICIENT TO CLEAR A FIFTY FOOT WALL AND

TO MOVE SLOWLY HORIZONTALLY A SHORT DISTANCE OUT

OF VIEW OBSTRUCTED BY TREES. ENGINE OF TRACTOR

FAILED TO OPERATE DURING THIS PERIOD AND ONE OTHER

OCCASION WHEN HIGH PITCHED WHINNING (sic, J.K.)

NOISE HEARD IN AREA. NO INDICATION OF MENTAL

INSTABILITY DURING THE INTERVIEW. FURTHER DETAILS

FOLLOW AMSD."

I also have an amplified version of this report which was written by J. Edgar Hoover personally to

J. Patrick Coyne of the National Security Council

and hand couriered to him on November 8, 1957--one day after the urgent telex from the Detroit SAC.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ January 26, 2006, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[John Kettler]

Rollstoy and Troops,

I'd hoped to find the German Research Project online, since that group has done research for years into little known and suppressed German secret weapons, but I couldn't find anything current for the Gorman, California based group, from whom in the past I've obtained extensive bibliographies, engineering drawings, POW interviews, etc., but in hunting for it, I hit jackpot.

Someone, you see, wrote an entire book on the German saucer projects, to include a section on the underground facility at Lake Garda, which is where Renato Vesco got his wartime exposure to German saucer programs. Have so far only skimmed a tiny part of what's there, but what I've seen so far looks great, to include the patent for the previously mentioned Coler apparatus. There are stills and some video, but I haven't yet had a chance to look at the video other than the provocative intro. The level of technical information is simply astounding, and the declassified Top Secret documents confirming the existence of Vesco's Feuerball (called "foo fighter" and "phoo bomb" in the intel docs, which give the lie to ceaseless official denials,

are must reads. The Field Propulsion chapter looks at some of the electrogravitic work, including eyewitness testimony, and the Peenemunde chapter has some fascinating things to say about

Silver Bug and its propulsion scheme.

http://missilegate.com/rfz/index2.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[ January 25, 2006, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[Thomm]

Thanks for the link!

Looks fun! Hope I will find time to read it!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Moronic Max]

Is this true? My dad made me eat a carrot every day for about 10 years straight, saying it would help my eyes. Was I lied to?

My dad said that squinting would damage my eyes, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't correct...

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

http://missilegate.com/rfz/index2.htm

thanks for the link, looks interesting.

[John Kettler]

Carrots and vision

Carrots do help vision and much else besides.

http://vtvt.essortment.com/carrotsnutritio_rwql.htm

Urban legends about vision

http://www.westheimervision.com/articles/vision_care_a6.htm

undead reindeer cavalry,

You're welcome!

Regards,

John Kettler