Medics appreciation

[handihoc]

Still, after how many months (?), appreciating the subtlety of this game. Very rare to for me to be playing single player still, so long after release.

One thing that's really making me re-think my approach is the presence and influence of medics on the battlefield. In other wargames (ToW, CC, CMx1 etc), I would take some losses, feel the hurt, shrug, and forge on at all costs.

SF doesn't allow you to do that. You get penalised for losses, depending upon the scenario designer's victory conditions.

But equally, I'm really impressed by how much difference the presence of medics makes. Now, when a man takes a hit, I try to make sure (not always possible, depending upon the battle situation), that the squad holds up, or at least another squad moves up, in order for medical attention.

It's such a simple thing, but makes a huge difference to your awareness of battlefield casualties, and their consequences. Sometimes I've seen a man return to combat after a couple of minutes medical. Others, he vanishes. I'm not sure if that means he's KIA, automatically, or if he's just WIA and removed from the field, but still counts towards Victory Conditions.

Whatever, it's one of the many subtle additions that make this game really stand out. It'll be very interesting to see how much difference this makes in upcoming WW2 game.

[PzKpfwIII]

If you're talking about "buddy aid", that has nothing to do with trained medics.

I'm not sure if that means he's KIA, automatically, or if he's just WIA and removed from the field, but still counts towards Victory Conditions.

Isn't this kind of evidence that either the documentation of the game fell short, or that your own understanding of the game falls short? In either event, doesn't that invalidate at least to some small degree your rave review of "medics" - which in fact are really just combat first aiders amongst the combat riflemen in the squads?

Whatever, it's one of the many subtle additions that make this game really stand out. It'll be very interesting to see how much difference this makes in upcoming WW2 game.

Given that the standard instruction in full blown attacks between 1939-1945 was to leave wounded men where they fell, this should be very interesting indeed.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by handihoc:

Still, after how many months (?), appreciating the subtlety of this game. Very rare to for me to be playing single player still, so long after release.

One thing that's really making me re-think my approach is the presence and influence of medics on the battlefield. In other wargames (ToW, CC, CMx1 etc), I would take some losses, feel the hurt, shrug, and forge on at all costs.

SF doesn't allow you to do that. You get penalised for losses, depending upon the scenario designer's victory conditions.

But equally, I'm really impressed by how much difference the presence of medics makes. Now, when a man takes a hit, I try to make sure (not always possible, depending upon the battle situation), that the squad holds up, or at least another squad moves up, in order for medical attention.

It's such a simple thing, but makes a huge difference to your awareness of battlefield casualties, and their consequences. Sometimes I've seen a man return to combat after a couple of minutes medical. Others, he vanishes. I'm not sure if that means he's KIA, automatically, or if he's just WIA and removed from the field, but still counts towards Victory Conditions.

Whatever, it's one of the many subtle additions that make this game really stand out. It'll be very interesting to see how much difference this makes in upcoming WW2 game.

I enjoy it too - has a big effect on tactics.

[Meach]

"In either event, doesn't that invalidate at least to some small degree your rave review of "medics" - which in fact are really just combat first aiders amongst the combat riflemen in the squads?"

whoa...easy, tiger. Sounds a bit sarcy, no?

[handihoc]

Medics may be 'just first-aiders' or 'buddy adiers', but their impact on the game is unique in my experience of computer wargaming, and valid as an expression of real world warfare.

It wasn't a 'rave review', just an acknowledgement of how thoughtfully devised this game is.

Where else in the computer gaming world have you seen medics as a functional component of the battlefield?

[M1A1TC]

The official name is Combat Life Savers (CLS) certified, or Advanced Combat Life Savers (ACLS) This is training that usually offered line soldiers about twice a year. ( I am the latter)

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by M1A1TC:

The official name is Combat Life Savers (CLS) certified, or Advanced Combat Life Savers (ACLS) This is training that usually offered line soldiers about twice a year. ( I am the latter)

Nothing like having a grunt with shaky hands practice IVs on you.

[JonS]

Originally posted by PzKpfwIII:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Whatever, it's one of the many subtle additions that make this game really stand out. It'll be very interesting to see how much difference this makes in upcoming WW2 game.

Given that the standard instruction in full blown attacks between 1939-1945 was to leave wounded men where they fell, this should be very interesting indeed. </font>

[M1A1TC]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by M1A1TC:

The official name is Combat Life Savers (CLS) certified, or Advanced Combat Life Savers (ACLS) This is training that usually offered line soldiers about twice a year. ( I am the latter)

Nothing like having a grunt with shaky hands practice IVs on you. </font>

[LarsS]

Sometimes I've seen a man return to combat after a couple of minutes medical.

Really? I've never noticed this happening. Did he come back in yellow or green condition? How often does it happen, any rough estimates? Any difference betwen red and blue buddy aid? (Or am I misunderstanding and you mean that the guy who is giving aid returns to combat and not the casualty?)

[Kirq]

The question is, what do you do when You see syrian medic providing first aid to smashed inf squad ? 2 days ago when I was playing second campaign mission i called for antipersonel mortar fire at loaction where I earlier engaged two syrian inf squads. Just before impact one of my squads have spoted a medic kneelig in that location. I felt kinda weird when it all disappeared in series of airbursts :/

[handihoc]

Originally posted by LarsS:

[]Really? I've never noticed this happening. Did he come back in yellow or green condition? How often does it happen, any rough estimates?

It seems to be rare, but I have seen it. IIRC he came back yellow. Has anyone else witnessed this? Most typically they don't return to combat, just vanish. As I said earlier, I don't know if that means KIA or WIA, and the consequences for Victory Conditions.

Don't know how it affects Red side.

But yes, it's the kind of thing that makes you re-think your battlefield tactics as commander. Kinda nice.

[Thomm]

Please note that buddy aid is vital for the Reds regarding the acquisition of RPGs from fallen soldiers!

Best regards,

Thomm

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by handihoc:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LarsS:

[]Really? I've never noticed this happening. Did he come back in yellow or green condition? How often does it happen, any rough estimates?

It seems to be rare, but I have seen it. IIRC he came back yellow. Has anyone else witnessed this? Most typically they don't return to combat, just vanish.</font>I've never seen it happen (and I evac EVERY wounded I get). If it happened I am tempted to call bug, because there is no field aid intervention that could realistically bring a critically wounded person back up to mobile fighting shape within the time frame of a scenario.

[Kirq]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by handihoc:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LarsS:

[]Really? I've never noticed this happening. Did he come back in yellow or green condition? How often does it happen, any rough estimates?

It seems to be rare, but I have seen it. IIRC he came back yellow. Has anyone else witnessed this? Most typically they don't return to combat, just vanish.</font>

[handihoc]

I've been trying, without success, to reproduce it. Maybe I got it wrong - fog of war, whisky, etc - didn't actually see what I thought I actually saw . . .

If I am wrong, then is the only effect of CLS (thanks TC!) in the game to prevent possible KIA for the purpose of assessing victory conditions?

Any chance of a comment from the Men Who Know on this?

[Splinty]

I wish I had a save file, I've seen "red to yellow" happen twice.

[handihoc]

Good on yer, Splinty. I was beginning to doubt myself.

[Huntarr]

As for red KIA returning to battle, they can not during that scenario. If given buddy aid they are removed from the Order of Battle and tallied as WIA. I don't even think Charles has coded them even remotely returning to battle in that same scenario. Again I'm referring to troops returning to battle in the same scenario.

Here let's all cry out for CHARLES / STEVE!!! Confirm this please.

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=001970#000005

[Meach]

Only seen red to yellow once in tons of games played.

[aka_tom_w]

one factor here might be the Fog of War setting

Basic FOW says somewhere they "heal" back to fighting condition unrealistically quicker

Veteran FOW is not a realistic time and it is still "enhanced" but not as quick as Basic

Elite FOW was supposed to be a much more realistic measure of time meaning they almost never heal or recover from anything but the slightest shock or panic or just a scratch or something like that.

FOW level is a factor here in recovery times for sure.

When posting about your alleged recovery times you should always state what FOW level you were using at the time.

FWIW

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by M1A1TC:

The official name is Combat Life Savers (CLS) certified, or Advanced Combat Life Savers (ACLS) This is training that usually offered line soldiers about twice a year. ( I am the latter)

Nothing like having a grunt with shaky hands practice IVs on you. </font>