So where are we after about 3.5 months?

[thewood]

For a while seemed like progress was being made. 1.04 initially seemed like it fixed a lot of things, but after a lot of playing and testing, it seems to have reduced certain tendencies of things we saw in 1.03, but most of the issues still seem to show up. With that said, what still needs work:

LOS/LOF issues through objects and terrain

WEGO replays still showing the wrong stats, etc. during replay

MP still seems somewhat screwed up in both RT and PBEM

ATGM bugs still floating around including disappearing ammo

Spinning AFVs

Reaction of AFVs to infantry fire or spotting of infantry (Strykers especially)

Some support weapons still have issues with spreading out crews

Firing from roofs has some issues when firing into other roofs

Squads getting confused and stuck in certain positions like AFV egress and building movement

A bunch of minor graphical glitches

AFVs still love firing HE ar other AFVs

Units stuck in Aiming/Spotting loops

No artillery smoke (not a bug, just a needed)

tanks should not fire 50cal at other tanks or afv - even for ranging purposes - that's what laser rangefinder is for.

When infantry are in a trench cowering, they should have very good cover

Infantry units are splitting up without command to do so, and become unmovable

"Occupy" objectives don't work. You secure the objective merely by ensuring the enemy isn't on it, not by actually getting to the objective yourself. At the moment, "Occupy" should be called "Expel Enemy

These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I have personally experienced most of these, but a couple are just from reading threads. The majority had thier frequency reduced in 1.04, but still exist. 1.04 is more playable than 1.03, but I find 1.04 playable only under specific circumstances, mainly away from built up areas. I am hoping that someone in the know can attest to what is being worked on for 1.05, and a rough timeframe for release.

PS. One measure may be the lack of overall posting here and around the web. There are still some pretty active forums about CM1 scattered around the web, but almost all the CMSF threads have died out, with exception of a fairly negative thread at the Blitz. In this forum, it looks like Peng has a higher posting total than all other threads combined in the last month. That in particular is a sign of the end times.

edit: added M1A1TC, Cpl Steiner comments

[ November 07, 2007, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: thewood ]

[Panzer76]

Well, CMx1 just had so much more possibilities, and tactcial depth than CM SF. My fav game during my 20 years of gaming and I recommeneded it to everyone and their dog.

CM SF.. well, I find it extremly limited, rather unrealistic behaviour (since its displayed in all its 1:1 "glory") and repetetive. Obviously, there are people who love CM SF, but Im not of them. And, as you mention, since this forum has turned into a ghost town, it may seem that most are unhappy with it.

I guess everything will change when the Marines Module is here *cough* *cough*.

[Niessuh]

I reinstalled CMAK & CMSF last weekend after two years of abstinence, now I am really shocked, what an incredible gameplay. Look that smart defending AI. Your soldiers doing what they should do (even when is obeying orders). There are thousands of tactical options in every moment...

Note this quote from the CMAK manual (page 76):

"Pauses are allowed only at the beginning of a turn, and you cannot order additional pauses in between waypoints or at a later time in a turn. This, again, would allow for too much micromanagement, more than any company or even platoon commander would ever have."

[Cpl Steiner]

thewood,

You forgot to mention a bug I consider to be one of the most staggering for a tactical wargame:

"Occupy" objectives don't work. You secure the objective merely by ensuring the enemy isn't on it, not by actually getting to the objective yourself. At the moment, "Occupy" should be called "Expel Enemy".

That's pretty serious if you ask me.

[EDIT] Come to think of it, if BFC ever fix this it might be worth considering keeping the existing functionality but renaming the objective type and adding a true "Occupy" objective type. There are some situations in which an "Expel Enemy" objective might be useful. For instance, the mission might be to clear several locations of enemy, moving on to the next objective as each one is sterilized of enemy forces. Perhaps a more military name for this would be "Clear".

[ November 07, 2007, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

[thewood]

I didn't even get into bugs in the editor. I was hoping for posts listing what people thought were bugs so it would somewhat consolidated in one place.

[Cid250]

I agree 100% with Panzer76... CMx1 engine allows for more deep gameplay. They will never be able to model the bunch of weapons already available in CMBB and CMAK. Because the better graphics of CMx2 engine place a huge limit for the developers. So, CMx1 games are far superior in almost all the important features of a wargame.

Originally posted by Niessuh:

Note this quote from the CMAK manual (page 76):

"Pauses are allowed only at the beginning of a turn, and you cannot order additional pauses in between waypoints or at a later time in a turn. This, again, would allow for too much micromanagement, more than any company or even platoon commander would ever have."

Yes... CMAK and CMBB manuals, were done by people thinking purely in a wargame... sometimes they sound like the Wargamer's Bible.

Too bad that even the manual of CM:SF drops his quality in this sense.

[M1A1TC]

@thewood

All those are very good, valid issues with CMSF. I agree completely. I hope they are just bugs and being worked on as we speak. For the love of god I hope BFC reads this thread, and lets us know if these are fixed in 1.05 or will be fixed in the future.

I want to add few more

1. Add artillery smoke

2. tanks should not fire 50cal at other tanks or afv - even for ranging purposes - that's what laser rangefinder is for.

3. When infantry are in a trench cowering, they should have very good cover

4. Fix:Infantry platoons are splitting up without command to do so, and become unmovable

[yapma]

Pretty good list of problems, Mr. Wood. Mysterious blocking of LOS by invisible additions to walls, buildings and trees is far and away the worst problem for me.

It seems like we got 1 to 1 representation of the troops, and plopped them down into an abstracted terrain.

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[thewood]

depth in what way, just curious.

[Gazer]

Originally posted by Niessuh:

Note this quote from the CMAK manual [Razz] (page 76):

"Pauses are allowed only at the beginning of a turn, and you cannot order additional pauses in between waypoints or at a later time in a turn. This, again, would allow for too much micromanagement, more than any company or even platoon commander would ever have."

So true!

LordG

[SgtMuhammed]

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem but it seems that calling for fire is wildly inaccurate close to 50 percent of the time. I am not talking about distant targets at the edge of visibility but rather plainly seen targets with experienced FO's.

Several times I have called fire on a building to which my FO's have a direct line of sight and seen that fire fall several hundred meters off target. Adjust fire works now but while it is adjusting, rounds continue to be wasted on the original location. I have also noticed that only about half of my calls for fire result in spotting rounds being fired. The ones that do fire spotting rounds are always very accurate.

I have noticed this happening with all types of fire from Emergency on down and with or without FIST vehicles.

On a side note, has anyone noticed fire support vehicles actually being a benifit?

[thewood]

Just did a quick look at scenarios over at CMMODS:

Less than 50 scenarios to date. I am sure there are a few floating around that aren't there.

I subtracted multiple versions and the QB maps

The QB maps had around 600 downloads

Hammertime has 1200 downloads

It seems the typical download is around 200 times.

What does this point to. I think its the same thing I pointed out in another thread; scenario proliferation, not bugs, may be the killer for CMSF. While compared to some less succesful franchises, 50 scenarios averaging 200 downloads may seem good, compare that to our recollection of CMBO. Add to it a limited QB generator and that really lays out the state of CMSF.

I still remember being completely astounded at how quickly scenario designers started pumping out mass quantities. Some not so good, but it kept the community invigorated for years.

[redbear]

i think CMSF is a transition and is not a finished game, the lack of map generator and purchase units on quick battles made me think so. Why to step back from the qb models in CMx1 engine? that is sketchy not completed develop. I think they just focused on develop the actual playing engine of the game and that follow on module will add more to the game in game play and tools.

They are developing a new engine away from what CMx1 was and they need time to completed that. They will do that with the modules ( something i think). I seens that the marine modules will add more than just a new campaign missions and new units,it will add something to the game too, maybe a better qb generator and changes to the way the game is modeling. something to appeal the costumers.

I think thats why they go to the modules idea to have the time to build up its engine completed. Just think about it, who gonna buy the module with just new units and campaign? I think they know that. To see if CMSF will die or not we have to see what those modules will have under the hood.

This is just the way i think i have nothing to do with the developed team.

[Omenowl]

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem but it seems that calling for fire is wildly inaccurate close to 50 percent of the time. I am not talking about distant targets at the edge of visibility but rather plainly seen targets with experienced FO's.

I don't know how it works with the Syrians, but for my blue teams it is damn accurate. The spotter round will fall in all sorts of places, but after the first 2-3 rounds it will land within 1 building space of where I put it.

On the second mission of the campaign I could get the artillery to take out a building quite consistently. The airstrikes are a lot less accurate though.

[SgtMuhammed]

When spotting rounds are used arty is indeed deadly accurate but when they aren't I have noticed fire coming in several hundred meters off target.

[redbear]

sgtgoody are you using emergency when call for an arty? because on this case the fire is inaccurate it not use spotting rounds.

if that is the case try to use heavy or what evre instead of emergency.

[pad152]

Where is SF after 3-1/2 months, sadly still unfinished!

I think the game still needs another 3-6 months!

I sometimes think it would be better to move on to the WWII game but, if the SF engine (CMX2) is still unfinished I guess it doesn't matter if they finish SF first.

I still not sure even a completly finished SF will be much better, when most of the issues I have with SF is the whole Syria vs the West. The balance and fun just don't seem to be there.!

Two things are needed to help make it a better game.

1. Working Quick Battles w/purchase of units.

2. A real campaign, something more then just a bunch of linked battles.

[Cuirassier]

While I find CMSF still quite fun, I agree that the game lacks the high-intensity conflict that you get from the CMX1 games like CMBB. In the CMX1 games you get major powers fighting each other with basically symmetrical weapons systems. Thats not always the case in CMSF. Counter-insurgency missions can be fun, but not as fun as high-intensity engagements between nearly equal opponents (technology and weapon wise I mean).

I think CMSF would be awesome if it modeled the 1973 Arab-Israel war or maybe even the Iran-Iraq war. Even a hypothetical NATO vs. Warsaw Pact would be interesting.

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by redbear:

sgtgoody are you using emergency when call for an arty? because on this case the fire is inaccurate it not use spotting rounds.

if that is the case try to use heavy or what evre instead of emergency.

I will pay more attention next time or conduct some deliberate experiments. Thanks.

[Redwolf]

Modding support anyone?

In CMx1 BFC never really supported modding enough to even give us a list of texture filenames and where they go. But is there any indication the tools to unpack and re-pack the current composite files are coming anytime soon? Are we supposed to reverse engineer that, too?

[tooz]

"Modding support anyone?"--Redwolf

Great point. Now that CMSF seems to disappoint more than please (from what I glean from this sadly moribund forum) perhaps BFC should throw the devouted CM1 enthusiasts here a bone. Remember the forum in '04? I uninstalled CMBB and CMAK once I discovered it was not wide-screen compatible (even EYSA Second Front IS!). Why not let modders go to town and try to bring back some life into these old CLASSIC games. Imagine having T-28s, T-35s and Lend-lease Grants and Lees modded into the game ala the multi-turreted CMAK vehicles? Things like this would bring me back.

For now, I am enjoying ToW--problems and all--despite getting clubbed EVERY GAME! :mad: However, ToW is not as satisfying as CM1 WAS.

CMC seems like vaporware and I am very glad I don't like modern war sims, thereby not wasting money on CMSF.

Oh yeah, BFC said they were "burned out" from WW2. Perhaps it's time to rethink this?

I feel let down by BFC. 2002-04 were years full of fun and excitement with CM1 and the then lively forums. What I see now saddens me. I would like to see some effort from BFC to try to bring back CM1 fans.

Redwolf has a great suggestion. Anyone listening at BFC? Maybe take a look at the Total War sites and see how vibrant and active their forums are--especially when it comes to modding.

Hope so. Right on Redwolf, right on.

[shredder]

Originally posted by tooz:

Redwolf has a great suggestion. Anyone listening at BFC?

This is somewhat snarky, but after this experience I hardly think BFC listens to their former fanbase. They created and sold a game they wanted and thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, several months later the forum for their creation is dead, a sizable number of their followers (me included) are fifty bucks poorer while their creation languishes on our hard drives, and their "too bad if you don't like this game but it's becuase you don't get it" attitude instills in me a sense of schadenfreud that causes me to care less what happens with CMSF and care even less about the fortunes of BFC. They got my money and I got a broken crappy game.

[Percopius]

This forum is dead? A forum with 83000 posts is dead? Too funny.

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