Vehicle Damage Model

[Sgt Joch]

The Syrians are rapidly running out of weapons:

-their Air Force has been abolished;

-their tanks will fall easy prey to M1A tanks and Javelin missiles;

-their artillery will be less flexible and responsive than US artillery and will probably have a high percentage of duds;

-their Anti-tank missiles and RPGs will fail to fire or detonate on impact, because they can't be bothered to store them properly or don't know which way to point them;

that only leaves them with small arms, machine guns, mortars and booby traps :eek: ...but it won't be a Turkey shoot

..but I don't care, I will fight the Infidels even if it's just with a toothpick, if the finns can do it, so can the Syrians.

[Battlefront.com]

JC,

Are the reports you mentioned about Syrian weapon failures available online and if yes, could you post a link?

There isn't much that is specific, just generalized comments in pretty much any report on Syrian military capabilities. Much like the quotes you found and posted to the linked thread. I did see one that specifically mentioned the aging fleet of Milans. But like any closed off nation, independent information is mostly guess work using common sense and comparisons to similar situations. So there is no hard info as far as I know of.

The dud rate of the RPG rounds is not limited to Syrians. It is just a fact of life for anybody with an RPG since the problems are at the factory more than they are the field. As for the credible source for the dud rate, I've been given one verbally from someone who certainly knows, but I'll try to corroborate that with public sources.

Steve

[flammenwerfer]

Remember, the Syrians will have God on their side, and U.S. friendly fire.

[panzermartin]

Yes, but Steve said that they will play down the God effect in CMx2...

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Flammenwerfer:

Remember, the Syrians will have God on their side, and U.S. friendly fire.

Tawakalna 'ala Allah!

(translation: In God, we trust...everyone else pays cash)

[Battlefront.com]

JC,

Compare that list with what was encountered in OIF's initial phase and you'll see more similar than dissimilar. Now picture Iraq with more resolve and more lessons learned. If US forces ever go into Syria, I hope they don't think it will be a turkey shoot. Because if they do, they'll find that a lot of the turkey's shoot back fairly effectively.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

In God, we trust...everyone else pays cash

Hehe... haven't heard that one in a long time.

Back on topic...

Damage modeling will introduce entirely new elements to CMx2 over time. For example, not only will you have vehicles that can start out damaged, or be damaged in specific ways during combat, but you can have decisions in a campaign affect readiness. You can also have vehicles damaged by terrain instead of just "bogged" or not. These last two concepts are probably going to find some foothold in CM:SF, though the campaign thing is likely going to take many Titles to evolve because systems like that are very difficult to chew in one bite.

Remember that CMx1 was one of the first games to use real world values for things like armor and armor penetration. Many people, at the time, thought this was silly and we should use abstracted values just like every other wargame since the dawn of time. But after playing the game a bit people understood that going with realistic values resulted in a much more realistic feeling environment. Even outliers could be expained, where as in other systems the outliers were generally not. So we expect the same sort of thing to happen with the new damage modeling. And when new information came up, we could put it into the game pretty much "as is" for a better result.

Anyway, the new system opens up design doors to us that were previously unthinkable. And this is a great thing. We don't know EXACTLY where this is headed, or how quickly, but we are sure it is going in a great direction.

Steve

[ November 21, 2005, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[Sgt Joch]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Back on topic...

That is something we also don't hear often around here.

[Peter Cairns]

Steve,

On another topic I raised the issue of the need for far more detailed and complex rules for the damage of buildings, depending on construction and the nature of the weapon inflicting damage.

given that a building is just as much a model as a Stryker, are you doing something similiar for them.

Peter.

[akd]

I would think they would have to, if urban combat is going to be a focus of the game (how could it not be? lol). Buildings are the Syrians' tanks and deserve as much detail and complexity when it comes to their "military" function.

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, buildings can take variable damage unlike CMx1's overall degrading damage modeling. Not sure how detailed we can make it right off the bat, but the basis for simulating very detailed damage modeling is already coded.

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Yes, buildings can take variable damage unlike CMx1's overall degrading damage modeling. Not sure how detailed we can make it right off the bat, but the basis for simulating very detailed damage modeling is already coded.

Steve

Every time Steve tells us something like....

"Not sure how detailed we can make it right off the bat, but the basis for simulating very detailed damage modeling is already coded."

This HAS just got to be one of those things what should just SPARKLE in that WWII ETO Title that is on deck (in the game development sense!)

Every time he Steve says, something like we have the pieces in place and the coding foundation to "allow this to work" or permit this to happen" or facilitate this feature or that, I think to myself that CMx2 WWII ETO title is going to be one JEWEL of a game, because we already know they have all the vehicle data and specs from the CMx1 series and armour penetration and the rest of it for WWII all were pretty much tweaked out and worked VERY well IMHO by the time they said they were FINISHED with CMAK!

Which BTW is still my favourite video game of ALL time ! STILL

(even though I have to play it on a "special" dual boot OS 9 capable "legacy" Mac in that is over 4 years old!)

The CMx2 ETO Title is going to ROCK! no doubt about it!

(Did I hear Steve hint at "Co-Play" (Mulit Multi Player for CMx2 ETO!?? he he)

thanks!

The future looks bright!

-tom w

[ November 24, 2005, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[undead reindeer cavalry]

if CMSF models equipment malfunction, do we have means to avoid getting truly dysfunctional equipment for our squads?

[M1A1TC]

Should be unless its a National Guard unit