Body Armour Effectiveness

[Imperial Grunt]

Okay, after reading all the technobabble I have to post this recent test.

SAPI Plate Test in Afghanistan

[rudel.dietrich]

Sorry to dig up an old topic, and this may be a stupid question. But would body armour have any effect on a 12.7mm round?

Or would just the sheer force of the round shatter bone beneath the armour even if it did not penetrate?

[hellfish]

It might dent the round enough so that it starts tumbling when it penetrates you, but no, it's still gonna put a very big hole in your body.

[Zemke]

I can speak from first hand experience, I am deployed in Afghanistan right now. We had a SFC shot in the back of the helmet, front plate twice with 7.62x39 and never even knew he had been hit for sure till after the fight. He was on the .50cal in a UAH. I personnel saw the front plate and helmet. He felt the impact of the round to the back of the head, but thought nothing of it and keep firing his .50 cal. The front plates are a newer version issued, and tend to not shatter on impact. We have had soldiers shot with AP rounds, but they are very rare. One gun shield on an UAH had several holes from AK AP fire, but the gunner was not hit. We find the accuracy of the enemy very poor, most of the time, the enemy tends to spray a lot of rounds in your direction, leaving the results to God.

Anyway, my job is not to forgive, but set up the meeting with the one who can.

[acrashb]

Originally posted by rudel.dietrich:

But would body armour have any effect on a 12.7mm round?

http://www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/0101.04RevA.pdf

Even a piece of cloth will have an effect... but not in a way that is noticeable to the target.

[PLM2]

I saw a video on the internet on different weapon testing on a building setup with dummies inside wearing body armor, althogh I think they may not have had the plates inside because they called them "fragmentation vests" and it went through quite easily every shot.

It was still pretty neat to see how the AK-47 round went right through cinder blocks even at a 45 degree angle. Almost everything went through brick walls. Residential walls? Forget it.

[Nemesis Lead]

I saw that too PLM2. Note that the vests did NOT have plates in them.

This is one reason why "area fire" should be more powerful in CMSF than it was in CM. Pound small arms fire into buildings made of wood with drywall and the guys inside are going to get it!

Of course, in Syria the homes may be made of concrete!

[acrashb]

Originally posted by PLM2:

it went through quite easily every shot.

Vests, plates or no, require backing to reach their full effectiveness. In 'real life' the backing is your body. In testing the backing is a clay model that simulates your body.

Hanging the vest with nothing underneath will radically reduce its effectiveness.

So the video underrepresents the protective capability of body armour - but after all it was only designed to show penetration of building materials.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally posted by acrashb:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PLM2:

it went through quite easily every shot.

So the video underrepresents the protective capability of body armour - but after all it was only designed to show penetration of building materials. </font>

[J Ruddy]

I shoot the 7.62x54R fairly often at the range. If the story of the body armour vs 7.62x54R is true I am very impressed.

The most common rounds that I buy surplus are:

- Hungarian 1987 7.62x54r Steel Core Light Ball

- Hungarian 1970 7.62x54r Steel Core Heavy Ball

(For more info on these rounds see http://7.62x54r.net )

I can't speak to kevlar or other forms of modern body armour but I have penetrated 1/8" mild steel with both of these rounds at ~80 yds. I have also blown the back out of a 4x4 at 200 yds. 5.56 & 7.62x39 are very popular calibers at my range but in comparisons (using surplus military rounds - sorry I don't know which ones) neither were a match to the 54R on 1/8" mild steel or the 4x4 test.

Just some first hand information... not sure if it is useful or not.

[flamingknives]

Kevlar on its own will not stop a 'full-power' rifle round like the 7.62x54R or the 7.62x51 NATO, but the more modern insert plates will stop multiple armour piercing projectiles in these calibres.

[acrashb]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Kevlar on its own will not stop a 'full-power' rifle round like the 7.62x54R or the 7.62x51 NATO,

That's not entirely correct. Level III armour is designed to stop standard 7.61x51 (144grains at 2700fps) and may be had in fabric-only designs in overt or covert configurations. I'm not aware of any Level IV flexible armour. You may check the link I put in above to see what levels of armour will stop what rounds, then cruise around armour sites to see what they make at each level.

Once you get above 7.62x51 - as in a full-power hunting rounds like 30-06, I believe that you need plates.

Having said that, plates come in everything from 5x8" Level II to 10x12" Level IV (and no doubt other configurations).