How does one setup an ambush? & Cover Armor Arc?

[H.W. Guderian]

Ummmm .... maybe a dumb question but . . .

I just played the excellent "In Harm's Way" by Paper Tiger - where the yanks defend against a much larger force.

(1) How does one tell hidden units to "open fire" once targets are within a given range / arc / kill-zone? AKA - ambush.

(2) Additionally how does one tell said units only to open up on Tanks & BMP's - rather than giving themselves away to simply pop a 2 man HQ unit.

I'm sure there is a simple answer - but I can't suss it out?

Cheers n beers . . .

[zwobot]

(1) should work with cover arcs

(2) is not possible as far as I know; in CMx1 games there are armored cover arcs which tell armored vehicles only to fire at armored targets inside the designated arc and ignore anything else.

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by zwobot:

(1) should work with cover arcs

(2) is not possible as far as I know; in CMx1 games there are armored cover arcs which tell armored vehicles only to fire at armored targets inside the designated arc and ignore anything else.

Thanks for the reply mate.

(1) I tried that . . . didn't seem to work at all? But maybe I'm wrong / going blind / on something?

(2) Well I can tell you that it is a real shame for a Jav team to be spotted because it sprays a bit of small-arms at a distant HQ unit . . . instead of waiting for a T-72 or BMP to show up in the cross-hairs! We really need something like this in CMX2 - and not just for buses and tanks, but boots as well.

[MirabelleBenou]

For the point (2), maybe you can try to split your team.

Hide your small-arms guys with no arcs and give one for your team with the Jav.

You should put the small-arms teams in another location than the Jav team (they'll "join" together if too near).

I think the best is to put the Jav team in the roof top of a building, and the others guys spread in the lower roof.

[zwobot]

The problem is that the Javelin team will although "equipped" with a cover arc will even fire at soft targets like infantry groups. At least that was a common thing to see in previous patchlevels.

[MiB]

IIRC there is a problem with hide + cover arc not working.

[Pandur]

(1) How does one tell hidden units to "open fire" once targets are within a given range / arc / kill-zone? AKA - ambush.

no way to do that, and i dont know why this simple thing isnt right in the first place. i mean it pretty obviouse.

hopeflly 1.05 will fix this.

[G B Scurlock]

This mysterious 1.05 patch again. It's mentioned a lot but I have seen nothing "official" on what it attempts to fix.

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by MirabelleBenou:

For the point (2), maybe you can try to split your team.

Hide your small-arms guys with no arcs and give one for your team with the Jav.

You should put the small-arms teams in another location than the Jav team (they'll "join" together if too near).

I think the best is to put the Jav team in the roof top of a building, and the others guys spread in the lower roof.

Bon jour mon ami,

I *HAD* split up my teams - the two man Jav team, sitting in a wood, decided to make its presence known by firing a few carbine rounds at some HQ unit that crossed its target arc . . . instead of waiting for a BMP or T-72?!

[other comments above] ALSO . . . it seems clear from the responses here that after 3 months of CM:SF patching *** YOU CAN'T SET-UP AN AMBUSH *** !?!?!

Maybe they figure we will always play the Yanks - attacking en masse - and so who needs to be able to do something silly like ambushing an attacking force?

Disappointing. Maybe I'll go play CM X 1 again . . . . time is money and free time for gaming is GOLD.

A tout a l'heure mes amis. Bon chance.

(God my French is crap . . .)

[MirabelleBenou]

You're french is good, very good, only one mistake (Bonne chance).

[Big Poppa Pump]

Bumping this thread. Did a search on cover armor arc. Has there been any mention of adding a cover arc command in the future?

There doesn't seem to be a way to effectively set up an armor ambush. The covered arc won't cause units to hold fire on infaatry.

[z1812]

Hi All,

I have had some success by doing the following. All of the ideas below are from other posts that I have read.

1. As previously mentioned split an AT team off the sqaud.

2. Give it a very, very small fire arc and if you wish a hide command as well. ( I ususally do )

3. Then you have to micromanage a little by keeping on watch for a likely target to appear.

At which time you target the enemy.

This does not always work but seems effective enough most of the time.

You may do the same with infantry.

Regards John

[thewood]

z, I assume you are talking RT not WEGO.

[Big Poppa Pump]

In WEGO target armor only doesn't seem possible. I'm just trying to find out if the command or something like it is to be considered in a future patch or possibly introduced with a new module. Hopefully this is an function that was left off due to time constraints.

I can see that with extensive micromanaging this can be accomplished in realtime. I do like the realtime option but after 1.07 fixed most of the WEGO issues I've gone back due to all the incredible details you miss in real time.

[z1812]

Hi All,

Big Poppa there is no target Armour command what-so-ever in Wego or RT.

Although I have not tried it, I presume target arcs and the hide command work in wego.

The difficulty is, if your troops are caught off guard during the minute of turn resolution.

A major consideration.

regards John

[thewood]

Hide and arc do not work for ambush in WEGO. Troops told to hide, hide, regardless of arc. At least that is my take on it.

[Big Poppa Pump]

z - I know there isn't a command. Just hoping there was a plan to include one at some point in the future.

thewood - Target arcs work fine. Units hiding will fire once a unit enters the arc. Hide limits their spotting ability so they may not see the enemy the instant they enter the arc even with clear LOS. Relative spotting may give the impression they have spotted the enemy within the arc. At least that has been my experience.

[thewood]

Funny because I haven't seen a single unit fire with a hide command in an arc.

[z1812]

Hi All,

There are quite a few thigs I would like to test if only I had the time.

It seems to become complicated as behaviour may be different for the same commands depending on if it is used in wego or real time.

regards John

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by thewood:

Funny because I haven't seen a single unit fire with a hide command in an arc.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own FACTS:

1st pic shows setup with hide command and Fire Arc

2nd pic shows spotting, while hiding and fire Arc

3rd pic shows spotting and firing The red circle shows missile in flight

These pics were taken during WEGO play of ATGM Ambush scen ( a stock scen) To answer the posters question...This is how you set up an Ambush

[Childress]

This worked because the unit was on a downward slope looking down, with a clean LOS despite being prone?

How about enabling ambushing troops to Hide- but not quite so well? For example, in a trench.

[MikeyD]

Are you playing Realtime or WeGo? I ask because Realtime you've got continuous control, just tell your men to hide then tell them to start shooting. You don't really need the AI to act as intermediary (unless you're inspecting the far corner of a huge map and don't notice when its ambush time).

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by Childress:

This worked because the unit was on a downward slope looking down, with a clean LOS despite being prone?

How about enabling ambushing troops to Hide- but not quite so well? For example, in a trench.

No...This worked because the combination of Hide and Cover Arc works. As to trenches (or low walls, building, vehicles, ect): to spring an ambush the troops must be able to see. So if you decide to use Hide you will want to check LOS to insure they'll be able to see their target in the Cover Arc. As you may recall the "stance" of units in CM:SF have great effect on LOS. Troops that are hiding in a trench have almost no LOS. So hiding isn't a good tool. The trench itself is the hiding tool. In the case of trenches, walls, ect use the cover arc alone.

[H.W. Guderian]

Mark, thanks for your contribution.

But, what would have happened if the ATGM team had seen a few grunts within AK range first? Say at "long AK range"?

Would they have popped off a few useless rounds and given away their position when their main job is to try to hide and wait for juicy armor targets?

I'm still baffled why we don't have "cover armor" - especially for Jav teams where the other grunts seem keen to pop off rounds at Red infantry?

But I'm easily baffled =)

[MarkEzra]

Originally posted by H.W. Guderian:

Mark, thanks for your contribution.

But, what would have happened if the ATGM team had seen a few grunts within AK range first? Say at "long AK range"?

Would they have popped off a few useless rounds and given away their position when their main job is to try to hide and wait for juicy armor targets?

I'm still baffled why we don't have "cover armor" - especially for Jav teams where the other grunts seem keen to pop off rounds at Red infantry?

But I'm easily baffled =)

Infantry support fire was toned down in 106 or 107..can't remember which. The multiple and rather finite testing performed in the scen Chance encounter, Javelin Teams are extremely important. They perform their task well and without taking potshots at infantry at long range. In Riesberg The RR teams are targeting tanks in an Infantry rich target zone. Their inf support seem to fire only when fired upon.

That being noted and my general view of it seemly working OK, I have no problem with a Target armor only code. It would reinforce the players intent, if nothing else.