Sanok Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I have CMBO SE. From these forums, I can tell that CMBB is a better game. Just how much better is it and what makes it so? I enjoy CMBO, but will purchase CMBB if it's really that much better. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Like all the people who bought CMBO and had a heap of fun with it for the first couple of years, you can too. It's a little bit disorientating trying to play both CMBO and CMBB, so the majority of people have switched over to the Russian front for the meantime. Just my opinion, but CMBO is probably a bit more "fun" to play than CMBB. That's because your CMBO soldiers are a bit unrealistically heroic. They can run harder for longer periods without getting tired, and they seem to be immune to machine gun fire. It's great fun playing with super-men. But on the downside, the CMBO artillery is utterly devastating, compared with the more realistic CMBB stuff. And to tell the truth, the CMBB infantry, who tire more easily and get pinned by machine gun fire more easily, are also lots more realistic. But if you imagine that CMBB was still a year off, and we all had to stick with CMBO for the meantime, I think you'd still find a lot of happy gamers. Probably your biggest problem will be finding human opponents. They're better and more challenging than the AI, and there are heaps of CMBB human opponents, and not so many CMBO players out there any more. I, for example, just play CMBB. So, enjoy yourself. Yes, CMBB is a better game in many senses, but CMBO is still a lot of good fun. You might have noticed that CMAK (Afrika Korps) is around the corner, so if you buy CMBB now, you might find that in a couple of months you'll be 'lonely' again, as everyone will have switched over to CMAK. If I were you, I'd enjoy CMBO for the next few months, then buy CMAK when it comes out, then you'l be in the mainstream with heaps of opponents to choose from. Go visit the CMBB forum for news on CMAK. Cheers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Köhler Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that CMBO is faster. Sure there are a few tweaks but there really is not a big difference between the two. I play CMBB at home and CMBO at work Great way to spend my days! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 LOL Sure your boss isn't reading posts here then Jussi? Of course, if he is I guess he's not working either. Anyway, I couldn't enrichen the answers above as I play CMBO exclusively, but I can at least provide the encouraging news that while the CMBO player numbers dwindled dangerously there for a while, we now see a sudden boost again. I no longer feel there is a problem finding opponents, regardless of hour or day. I suspect this will have something to do with the release of special editions retail recently? Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monwar Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 There are hordes of CMBO players to be found everywhere. Try th Blitz ladders, there are at least 200-250 there. Other sources are also available, but I'm amazed by the abundance of the Blitz players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Better about CMBB: 1) Better graphics (need a higher-end system, though) 2) More realistic MG and Arty 3) Much greater variety of terrain, weather and forces due to much greater scope of Eastern Front. 4) QB generator has many more options (everything can be set to "random" except points) 5) New orders such as covered arcs and "shoot and scoot" for AFVs . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 The big BIG (decisive) difference for me is that CMBO runs smoothly on my (oldish) computer and BB definitely does not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 I agree with some of the things posted above. The infantry in CMBO does seem to be capable of running for long periods of time without tiring. I've also noticed that MGs seem to be pretty ineffective. Is artillery really unrealistically devastating? Mortars seem to be as weak as MGs. I also wish the AI played better. I wish CMBO had the advanced engine and improvements CMBB has. The Western Front is of far more interest to me than the Eastern. It would have been more enjoyable to play that part of the war with the better game. I also have an "oldish" computer, so buying CMBB or CMAK might not be an option for me until I can upgrade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Er... the machinegun issue is in no doubt, nor is the artillery problem (Sanok - its not lethality as in firepower, but as in being extremely accurate and being at worst available within a few seconds, with 100 percent battery access on the wireless...). But I don't get the endurance bit. The regular German infantryman in CMBO will run for about 2 minutes 10 seconds or so before slowing down to a walk. That's flat ground. The elite infantryman is about the same, making it perhaps ten or fifteen seconds or so longer. Broken down into parts, the soldier loses his Rested status after about 15 seconds of running, becomes Tired after about a minute and 20 seconds and then Weary at above stated 2 minutes ten. Elite statistics are only marginally better. Speed is at about 3 meters per second, flat ground. World record speed is about 9 meters per second (Michael Johnson) on a 400 meter stretch (Female record is about 8 meters per second (Marita Koch)). Speaking world records in walking, speeds are at about 4 m/s or so. So it appears to me that CMBO speeds do resemble your typical combat assault jog. I'm not sure how heavy the Sturmgepäck was but I sincerely doubt it was heavier than 10 kilos. Adding the frustration of the equipment swinging back and forth, the heavy helmet dropping down in ones face and the army boots being less than ideal for running, doubletime speeds were probably a hassle. Especially as at least one of the guys is toting a 10 kg machinegun, and the others are liable to be carrying 250 round belts for it - and squadleaders are liable to carry Panzerfausts too. But even so, I can't really regard the performance in CMBO as very astonishing. Questionable might be that the trooper recovers from weariness within a second from sitting down. Being tired lingers of course, 2 full minutes if doing nothing (1,5 if Elite), which is more like it. And penalties for being Tired and Weary are most keenly felt, especially if the unit ends up in combat in such a state. So what am I missing? Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melb_will Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Lets face it if you're posting in this forum you know which game is best. The western front, better translates to a game in my opinion because of the greater partity between the forces especially in the early years. That said can't wait for the itallian campagin. The only real advantages in CMBB in my opinion are the covered arcs for infantry/armour so you're friggin expensive anti tank forces don't waste their ammo and reveal themselves shooting a dam sharpshooter when the 2 seconds more it would of walked across 2 mg's ambush markers. Sorry thats just my little rave. Will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbassie Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 CMBB is just a refined version of CMBO. Most people would rather play the west front, so that's the main drawback for most people. The extra commands - espeically cover arc, move to contact - make the game a lot better IMO. In CMAK it's likely that people can create west front scenarios due to similarity in some terrain. So in a way it'll be CMBO w/ all the refinements of the later games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Yeide Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Someone find Dandelion an opponent, quick. He's setting up footrace scenarios and timing them! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I am thinking unarmed Kübelwagen vs. unarmed Jeep. 1500m S shaped rally track. Anyone? Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monwar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I have both CMBB and CMBO and have been exclusively playing CMBO. I have the same problem as Dandelion and some other folks, I just can't yet stand the grimness of Eastern Front battles. The great empty steppes, the endless snows, the huge, reasonless slaughters - this is very depressing for me. Another and the MAIN reason I think I am playing CMBO exclusively now is that I have 8 PBEMs going and I am enjoying CMBO tremendously. It has not yet been a month since I bought this wonderful game and I still have a lot to play. I wonder if I would ever play CMBB or just jump directly to CMAK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackDouglas Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I agree with Monwar and Dandelion ... I am somewhat new to CMBO (about 2 months) and am enjoying it thoroughly. Have plenty of good opponents. Have tried the CMBB demo, but wasn't all that impressed. I intend to play CMBO until I have a good reason to switch, and then will probably get CMAK. In any case, it is a great game system. Wahoo! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I love my cmbo, but I have tried the cmbb demo. The only reason I could think of not to switch to cmbb was the lack of Americans. I love the graphics on cmbb. Waiting patiently on cmak 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I am with Monwar - CMBB seems like it would peg the "Grim Scale" for me... I also am fond Americans, and by playing them so much seem to do OK with them, while I am hopeless as the Germans, even with their über-Panzers. The difference for me is that I have been playing CMBO for over three years now, and I still really like it. The attraction of CMBB for me would be the better graphics and the way larger number of vehicles. But - the add-on graphics for CMBO are extremely well done, and go a long long way to making me forget that aspect. Yes, I am sure that the MG, artillery and troop improvements are great, as well as the additional orders included in CMBB, but I never thought that those aspects of CMBO were so bad in the first place. All that... and time. For me, time is so scarce that I really have no time to learn new games/sims. That is why I still fly European Air War (when I even fly...) [ September 13, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Crank_GS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Determinant Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by Monwar: I have both CMBB and CMBO and have been exclusively playing CMBO. I have the same problem as Dandelion and some other folks, I just can't yet stand the grimness of Eastern Front battles. The great empty steppes, the endless snows, the huge, reasonless slaughters - this is very depressing for me. Ahh. I see what you mean, but, but... Normandy was a horrible, horrible, nightmare. A killing match to the death in close, claustrophobic, and yet lovely farming countryside. I agree that CMBB captures the horror of the Eastern Front (I nearly shivered playing 'A Warm Place to Sleep') but perhaps, in retropsect, CMBO makes Normandy too jolly? Strangely enough CMBO in the Winter of 44-45 on the German Border does catch the wet, cold, grimness rather well. Much depends on the quality of your mods I suppose (another strength of both games). But I do have to agree that CMAK will be even better than CMBB! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by Sanok: I have CMBO SE. From these forums, I can tell that CMBB is a better game. Just how much better is it and what makes it so? I enjoy CMBO, but will purchase CMBB if it's really that much better. Thanks. Dude, buy them all... you'll never, NEVER , be disappointed. They are different, but like your children or your pets you'll love them all. Really!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by Dandelion: I am thinking unarmed Kübelwagen vs. unarmed Jeep. 1500m S shaped rally track. Anyone? Cheerio Dandelion http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/hysterical.htm get the "playable" save game of the scenario and "play" it. it takes crack kubelwagens to beat vet jeeps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauCoupDinkyDau Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 This thread is full of NAZIS too! :mad: EDITED because I'm a freedom loving American. Dang Nazis! [ September 15, 2003, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Vader's Jester ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuhhodge Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I think I pretty much agree with all of you. I bought CMBO a couple of years ago and thought it was an excellent game, then CMBB came out and I was even more impressed. The graphics are better and the command system and AI too. However, it still has its problems, as people have mentioned. To be honest, I much prefer playing as the British (patriotism I suppose) and I have no desire to be the Russians in CMBB. Despite feelings of being a traitor, in CMBB I am forced to play the Germans. I'm fed up with that, so have gone back to CMBO and am much happier. I hope CMAK comes out soon, it could be excellent, but ideally I'd like to see a further version of CMBO with better graphics, AI and command control. That would be ideal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Carr Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 In my opinion, CMBB is better because the game engine is better. It responds more realistically than in CMBO. I am very much looking forward to CMAK because the game engine will be similar to CMBB and because of the Italian theater, West Front battles can be recreated using the same equipment with similar terrain. Again, in my opinion, both infantry and armor seem to react so much more realistically in CMBB than in CMBO. CMBO is still a great game but because of the differences CMBB is just that much better. If you are still debating a purchase, I would recommend getting CMBB. I understand what some of the posters said about there interest in the Brit's or Americans and how they like to play them. Obviously, you can't do that in CMBB. CMAK will make it possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Brock Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Tunhodge wrote.. I hope CMAK comes out soon, it could be excellent, but ideally I'd like to see a further version of CMBO with better graphics, AI and command control. That would be ideal. When CMAK comes out you WILL for all intents and purposes have that improved CMBO you dream of. With possible exception of some terrain like hedgerows, CMAK should be able to simulate any battle with any major nationality on the western front as well as Africa/Italy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 Since I'm much more interested in the Western Front, and CMAK is sure to have improvements over CMBB, I'll buy CMAK. I just hope they make hiding in trees more realistic. It gets old seeing an LOS pass through 25 meters of woods. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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