BioWizard Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I am finishing a version 1.02 game right now against Pfeiffer, ranked number one on Panzerliga and in my opinion a very strong player, and he managed to take an abandonned Egypt and, putting all his efforts on air superiority including bombing the Manchester port and getting Ireland with no diplomatic consequence over USA (I still don't understand why Hubert did not change that in version 1.03 and did not state his opinion over that) as an air base, he forced England to capitulation on november 1941, 2 weeks after Russia joined, having reached 100% activation from the slow percentage per turn starting in 1941. Terif says on his "multiplayer guide for V1.03" that this means practically Game Over for the Axis. But, in order to learn some more, become number one myself in the league or maybe just to prove wrong the master himself (don’t know if that is possible), i decided not to give up. It is now december 1943 and I’m still holding out and doing pretty good. When I saw England fall, I made sure to plan for a very long game! Right now, both Russia and USA are industrial, production and intelligence levels 5 and airplanes level 4. Intelligence to keep my advance on tech, industrial and production to out-balance his economy and airplanes to prevent his air superiority. So, here are my problems: -With England surrendered, Canada’s whole production goes to waste. There are no way canadians would have stopped their war effort historically. Just to show the canadians resolve into the war: Some time ago, some top secret canadian defence plans were released to the public and we learned that, if Germans were ever to land in St-John, New-Founland, or Halifax (one city or both, i don't remember...) there was a very detailed plan on how to burn down the whole city to dust with crude oil... A beginning of scorched earth policy on canadian territory! -USA’s heroic move to land in Ireland and recapture Dublin (I reached amphib level 5), to have a future operation platform to Europe, made that country become English land and their money also goes to waste! -Russia’s grand maneuver from Iran to take Irak back and then Syria just prevented Axis from having access to these ressources as these countries also turned british. Worst than that, these countries don’t provide supply to russian troops. It is normal to render England and USA’s supply sources non-cooperative to russian’s one and vice-versa if we don’t want to have these armies join and fight together, for political and historical reasons. BUT, I DON’T SEE WHY SYRIANS AND IRAKIS WOULD NOT GIVE SUPPLY TO AN ARMY KIND ENOUGH TO KICK OUT OF THEIR COUNTRY AN INVADER WHO PLUNDERED THEIR RESSOURCES. Or, once England is no more, why would Stalin hesitate in plundering Irak for himself just as an Axis player can do? In any case, I find it weird that the russian army can never reach Egypt (even with all techs maxed out, and I’m slowly reaching that) and therefore revive England, So, here are my solutions: -If England has capitulated, minors originally under the british influence, once recaptured by USA or Russia should be under their influence for the time being or at the very least, if they stay british, provide some supply to the russian liberators. I read the changes in patch 1.03 and I don’t think any changes affects this. p.s. It is very frustrating. I play well, kick the axis out of many countries but with no immediate positive consequence… :mad: p.p.s. I learned it the hard way that Syria turns back to being English! Aren’t they supposed to be French? Why English if they are not even in the fight? In the same turn, I sent three level 3 Russian armies and a level 4 tank against its capital and took it! It then turned red for a moment and I could operate 2 more level 4 airplanes right beside and moved closer an HQ that was supply 10 from the very limit of the supplying range of Teheran. The turn later, the capital transformed back into an English non-cooperative supply source, my HQ fell at supply 5 only and many of my troops got slaughtered from the counter-attack. THIS IS A BUG! If Syria is supposed to turn into a non-cooperative supply source, it should not have let me operate some units in. This whole thing seen afterwards looks to me as a perfect trap, where I was lured into a high supply zone and then left to die of hunger the turn after. It has to change, one way or the other. No operating possible or supplying russians when England is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Waht you have found are some of the fundamental problems of SC2. Sadly they spoil the game for amny as a "serious" wargame. It's fun to play occasionally, the same way that Diplomacy, Risk and Axis and Allies are - the board games, not the bastardised computerised vesions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 BioWizard! , Excellent analysis, everything you mentioned need's to be explained and or addressed or both!. If you do not get satisfaction for a addressing/resolving these inadequacies, then perhap's copy & paste or reiterate this malfunction in the game at... BUG REPORTS_TECH SUPPORT FORUM: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Definitely buggy that certian nations go back English, with no Homeland, at the very least you should have known that you were going to lose out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Good to point this out. Hopefully Hubert will adjust the behavior of his home country, Canada along with any other English dudes scattered across the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeiffer Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 @biowizard: good statement for our very fine game! In tech I'm numbered out at the moment, but with taking back Finnland and holding Egypt I think that I'm holding the advantage. All Europe except Ireland, Switzerland and Greece is axis. Mpp should be nearly same. After Britain had surrendered mpp of Canada should go to USA! But Iraq, Iran and Syria should not give full supply to Russia - that makes it to easy for Allies to overrun Neareast completly. If there are taken by Russia they should go to USA - I don't think that there was only one nation in this part of the world that would have installed a communiste regime. And if there were forced to do so, there had to be much partisans against Russia - look at Iraq today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I can also only second BioWizard: If there are british ressources left after a UK surrender, then give them to USA. The liberated countries should go to the homecountry of the forces that liberated them, especially if the mother country (UK) has already surrendered. As it is now, even a strong Russia has a problem since liberated countries go to UK and therefore no income and no supply for the russians from them and their offensives then can easily be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromley Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Ditto for Benelux->France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Good points guys, I'll take a look at some of this for patch v1.05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromley Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 You've got to love this level of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioWizard Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 @ everyone sor far, thanks for all your comments. May i just add that, if Pfeiffer's suggestion to give Irak to USA (ironic isn't it?) is agreed upon (still think USA-Russia's political differences at that moment would not have allowed that!!!), there should at least be a way to US troops to reach that part of the world. Maybe there should be, as i once read from someone else on this forum, red arrows in the water (forgot their names) south of Irak to reach its port by going around Cap Horn. Going West (as it is right now) or East of the arabian peninsula is not much difference in terms of distance nor time travelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have one other suggestion for this scenario, when UK surrenders. Canada should be fall back position for UK continuation, with some of the RN surviving, or USA naval build limits should be adjusted, more subs, CVs, BBs and CAs. Japan would have waited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 While we're at it, why doesn't Italy ever get any Italian Minor Allies (a country going over to Axis always seems to end up in Germany's corner, unless it is conquered of course)? Anyone ever seen an IMA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Well, what country specifically do you have in mind to join the Italians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Spain was in Italys sphere of influance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scook Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Your views of Britain falling mirror mine, with the caveat if you can take Britian back with USA, you are much more powerful if you hold Africa. I do like the idea of Spain going the way of Italy also. Most boardgames I have played put Duce and Franco in the same bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I like the idea of making Patton with a ranking of 10...and head cracking the enemies of the Justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 When the Russians occuppied a nation as the Germans, they took control if it's resources, no matter what Canada and any Minors should go to the USA, the UK-USA were in bed together through Both World Wars. They would have cooperated in the face of a disaster such as the Isles or the entirety of the British Empire falling. As you get a chance to get free french, how about Free British? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Idea: If a non-coopoerative ally liberates a country they should get the MPPs until a unit of a cooperative ally moves into its capital city tile - which the non-cooperative ally can prevent by maintaining a unit in its capital city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 So russia liberates only the oilfields of iraq...leave baghdad to the germans so the oilfields can produce for ussr Countries with 2 cities (capital + another one) - you should get only the other town to draw supply and/or operate troops, but not the capital. Hmmm... politics, politics ... what a biatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Ideea: when a noncoop ally liberates a country, the player should be allowed to choose whether that country reverts back to its original parent or stays with the liberator. This could be seen as 'sphere of influence' negotiation between the members of the same coalition. If the original parent country is knocked out of the war, ownership and cash should definitely go to the liberating power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Originally posted by Scook: Your views of Britain falling mirror mine, with the caveat if you can take Britian back with USA, you are much more powerful if you hold Africa. I do like the idea of Spain going the way of Italy also. Most boardgames I have played put Duce and Franco in the same bed. And yet it was Hitler who met Franco to try to pull him into the war, not Mussolini. It was Hitler who Franco asked for parts of French North Africa, and grain and oil. Italy wasn't up to having a minor ally - it was having enough trouble with itself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 agreed, Germany was the logical Ally. Franco was supported by both Italy and Germany during it's civil war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samichlaus Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 As a reply to Stalin's Organists opinion that SC2 is no "serious" ww2 wargame, I must strongly oppose! To put SC2 in the same category like Risk, Diplomacy or Axis&Allies is very unfair to the game. Or else then please show me the ww2 computer game on a comparable level (strategic/operational) that does a better job than SC2. It might not be perfect and the issues discussed in this forum deserve to be considered in future updates. But as a computer and board wargamer for almost 30years all I can say to Stalin's Organist is: PLEASE show me that ww2 computergame that is superior to SC2, because I must have completely missed it out! And I will buy it right away... Samichlaus [ September 07, 2006, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Samichlaus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I am unaware of any game that does it better - I'm hopefull for the Sliterine offering but it's probably a year away. whether there's one that does it better or not is irrelevant - SC2 stands on it's own merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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