Something unusual...........maybe even a bug?

[Capitalistdoginchina]

I have noticed 2 things now which are causing me concern;

1) I have a Veteran 150mm arty spotter with direct LOS to an enemy gun in a foxhole, he is about 531 meters away slightly to the left of my spotter, but the volleys are all so way off target its embarrasing, the rounds are all falling in a neat pattern (As they should be) about 250 metes away from the target (About half way between the target and my spotter, and directly in front of my spotter (Not slightly to the left as should be). This cannot be right. He has fired of his entire arsenal and the closest round landed 250 meters away from the gun.

2) In another PBEM battle i set up my force as usual, i put an arty spotter on the top floor of a building overlooking the battlefield. On turn one i spot an enemy SP gun in direct LOS, so i think to myself my opponent might just area target this building.......so i give the spotter a withdraw command to pull him back to building just behind. As soon as the turn starts he panics, when he panics he starts to sneak (Crawl) by the end of 3 turns he is not only broken, but completely exhausted and still inside that building because crawling is soooo slow, if my opponent had area targetted the building there is no way i could have got out. The spotter was regular, and in command of a HQ unit the whole time....but not a shot has been fired in the battle yet.

Should this be the case? My global morale is on 100 percent.

CDIC

[wadepm]

I don't know about the first one but in the second case did the FO have a radio or was he hard wired - those guys do strange stuff when you have them move in any fashion.

[Redwolf]

Point 1: this is a feature, see the manual. Artillery may now arrive off target on first FFE volleys, as if you targetted elsewhere. You need to give an adjusting new target order.

Point 2: all that panic and autosneaking is more or less completely screwed up, especially for units which cannot run and hence are getting exhausted even on a short way to cover. Welcome to the club. For me, this would be pretty much a showstopper for this game if other thing wouldn't be so cool See related bitching threads on the topic.

[ November 02, 2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Jagdwyrm]

Using the withdraw command gives you less delay than other orders. There is a good chance they may panic. I noticed this too even if not fired upon with one of my spotters. Guess they get scared when you yell "GET THE F%$# OUT!!"

[xerxes]

Withdraw was a rather gamey command in CMBO so it was effectively neutered in CMBB. I don't use it anymore. (I think the neutering was a bit overdone).

[rune]

Why a withdrawal command? A move command should have been used. A withdrawal command is a full blown get the hell out of dodge command. Page 235 in the manual tells you it is an emergency command and you have a greatly increased chance of panicing.

Rune

[Cpt.Kloss]

Originally posted by rune:

Why a withdrawal command? A move command should have been used. A withdrawal command is a full blown get the hell out of dodge command. Page 235 in the manual tells you it is an emergency command and you have a greatly increased chance of panicing.

Rune

-------------------------------

But no delay.Your troops may rally later. Better to have panicked - but -alive than to leave your troops in the middle of heavy artillery barrage.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by rune:

Why a withdrawal command? A move command should have been used. A withdrawal command is a full blown get the hell out of dodge command. Page 235 in the manual tells you it is an emergency command and you have a greatly increased chance of panicing.

Agreed. The isue here is what happens when they panic, not so much that they panic.

CDIC was lucky there was no gun in a foxhole behind his spotter, otherwise his spotter would now be in the foxhole and the gun out of it.

[Stoffel]

Actually our capitalist friend is right.

I have the same problem in a pbem with a 150mm FO as well.

I have adjusted twice and still my rounds fall way of target,the rounds fall 200 meters to his left instead of 600 meters ahead of him at advancing russians.

i have waisted 9 rounds this way so far

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by Stoffel:

Actually our capitalist friend is right.

I have the same problem in a pbem with a 150mm FO as well.

I have adjusted twice and still my rounds fall way of target,the rounds fall 200 meters to his left instead of 600 meters ahead of him at advancing russians.

i have waisted 9 rounds this way so far

Manual p.133 and 214 gentlemen. If the spotting round/s come in way off target, you'll have to manually adjust, or maybe replot?

[General Tacticus]

But what does "adjust or replot" mean?

If the arty rounds are falling 200m to the left of the target, does one then aim 200m to the right of the target in order to drag the rounds on the right place, or just replot at the same point?

[ November 02, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: General Tacticus ]

[Cameroon]

Originally posted by General Tacticus:

But what does "adjust or replot" mean?

If the arty rounds are falling 200m to the left of the target, does one then aim 200m to the right of the target in order to drag the rounds on the right place, or just replot at the same point?

The exact same question I've had I thought that it meant to replot to the same point. But playing a recent scenario, whenever I did that the rounds fell where they had been falling.

So does that mean you have to plot to a new point that adjusts the off-target to be on-target?

Furthermore (let's assume you do have to plot to a new point that adjusts for the error), do you need LOS to this new point for the replot to be effective?

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Cameroon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by General Tacticus:

But what does "adjust or replot" mean?

If the arty rounds are falling 200m to the left of the target, does one then aim 200m to the right of the target in order to drag the rounds on the right place, or just replot at the same point?

The exact same question I've had I thought that it meant to replot to the same point. But playing a recent scenario, whenever I did that the rounds fell where they had been falling.

So does that mean you have to plot to a new point that adjusts the off-target to be on-target?

Furthermore (let's assume you do have to plot to a new point that adjusts for the error), do you need LOS to this new point for the replot to be effective? </font>

[Epée]

Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina:

I have noticed 2 things now which are causing me concern;

1) I have a Veteran 150mm arty spotter with direct LOS to an enemy gun in a foxhole, he is about 531 meters away slightly to the left of my spotter, but the volleys are all so way off target its embarrasing, the rounds are all falling in a neat pattern (As they should be) about 250 metes away from the target (About half way between the target and my spotter, and directly in front of my spotter (Not slightly to the left as should be). This cannot be right. He has fired of his entire arsenal and the closest round landed 250 meters away from the gun.

CDIC

I've had the same problem.

CRACK observer, with LOS. I adjusted and replotted. No use. Wasted ALL my ammo, it fell 200m or more away.

Epée

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rune:

Why a withdrawal command? A move command should have been used. A withdrawal command is a full blown get the hell out of dodge command. Page 235 in the manual tells you it is an emergency command and you have a greatly increased chance of panicing.

Agreed. The isue here is what happens when they panic, not so much that they panic.

CDIC was lucky there was no gun in a foxhole behind his spotter, otherwise his spotter would now be in the foxhole and the gun out of it.</font>

[Redwolf]

Seems to me the new "artillery-is-off-and-needs-adjustment" is plain broken in that the adjust fails to actually cange the fall point.

Didn't test myself, though, but there are several people in this thread who I think do not report nonsense.

[Capitalistdoginchina]

Ok, this has just got me thinking on the withdraw command.

If your regular troops are going to panic every time you hit the withdraw command (When not under fire)- when would you ever use it?

I mean, in 99% of cases i would use that command to withdraw my men when they are in deep trouble and outgunned. Usually, i could get at least half of the men back to safety to fight another day. But, if they are going to panic everytime they will just get slaughtered and not even return fire. If i leave them where they are at least they will shoot back and take one or two enemy troops with them. With the present system ordering a withdraw command to a platoon who are engaged in a firefight is a suicide order. So when would you use the command?

Maybe the tweak has made this command redundant in CMBB.?

CDIC

[Treeburst155]

There always has been a chance of panic with the withdraw order. Perhaps they increased it a bit? Your troops shouldn't panic EVERY time they are ordered to withdraw.

I'm more interested in this arty question. The manual is not real clear on how you adjust fire. Surely you just adjust to a point very near to the original plot. You just re-affirm the desired target point. Does anyone know about this for sure? If not, I'll have to go into testing mode again. I might as well test out the withdraw/panic percentage while I'm at it.

Treeburst155 out.

[Michael Emrys]

Treeburst, I am soooooooooo glad you are around!

Michael

[Treeburst155]

So, what's the scoop on adjusting fire? Nobody knows?!

Treeburst155 out.

[Bullethead]

Originally posted by Treeburst155:

So, what's the scoop on adjusting fire? Nobody knows?!

Treeburst155 out.

When you have FFE going on, you can shift it's mean point of impact up to 100m per turn and incur a minimal time delay, provided you have an LOS to the new target point. You click on the FO and issue the target (or target wide, or smoke) order and stretch the target line to the desired point.

If meet the required conditions for "adjusting" fire (within 100m of the current target, LOS to new target), the target line will be lime green. If the target line is blue, you have an LOS but the shift is over 100m, so you'll get the full normal delay time. And if the target line is black, you have no LOS so you have an increased delay time AND the certainty that the fire will scatter off target.

NOTE: That's all I'm going to say on this subject. I do not wish to discuss the complete inadequacy of mere 100m shifts, the problems of not being able to see shellbursts over low ground cover, nor the whole ball of confusion caused by calling moving ongoing FFE "adjusting fire".

[Treeburst155]

Thanks, Bullethead, but I knew all that. What I want to know is how to adjust spotting rounds or FFE when I see it is way off target.

I target the arty on my desired point (in LOS). When it begins falling I see that it is falling far off target. NOW what do I do? I'm already targetting the point I want. Do I shift the target point a very small amount (re-affirming the present coordinates), or do I move the target point an amount equal to how far off target the shells are falling? If the latter, would I have to have LOS to the new target point?

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Thanks!!

Treeburst155 out.

[TSword]

BUMP to an essential question !

[Count Sessine]

Bump :confused:

[Epée]

bump