Piats or Bazookas?

[deadeye3]

Who is more accurate? :confused: Anyone have any ideas?

Deadeye3

[Fieldmarshall]

The bazooka by far, BUT the PIAT is far safer to fire in doores because of no back blast it uses a spring

-Niles "Fieldmarshall" Hirschi

[Smack]

P.I.A.T!

At least its always been better for me, the bazooka is weak and awful in built up or dry wooded areas due to the blast...

[Walker]

Haven't noticed any difference in average accuracy, but I do know that zooks tire a lot less quickly and can therefore run longer distances without getting 'tired', which in turn does affect the hit rate. On the other hand, a well positioned piat will often get off a few shots before being spotted, and the accuracy of zooks/piats/schrecks under fire drops dramatically.

[Goanna]

Accuracy of zooks, PIATs and schrecks are all modelled equally I think since that has to do with the tube length (all similar) and crew experience.

Effectiveness, however, is another matter. All use shape charges, but the schreck has the largest I believe. The shreck and zook are also use flammable propellants to launch, resulting in those pesky indoor fires occasionally. The PIAT was launched with a spring and didn’t cause this problem. However, it was supposed to be difficult to fire the PIAT downward since the warhead just sat in there on the spring and tended to drop out of the tube. My methodical, comprehensive and absolutely unscientific research into this matter with the CM engine leads me to believe that they rank as follows in ability to kill AFVs:

1. Panzerschreck – clear winner and it doesn’t translate to “armour fear” for nothing

2. PIAT – quiet and deadly

3. Bazooka – Did a fly land on me, or what?

Your results may vary which does not in anyway refute the fact that I am correct.

[Cpl Carrot]

Just curious. What was the calibre of the PIAT. I understand the bazooka is a tiny 60mm and the panzerschrek 88mm.

Cpl Carrot

[von Schalburg]

The Piat's caliber is 8,9cm.

[Pak40]

Well, theoretically the bazooka should have a better chance to hit since it's able to be shot farther. In other words, what's long range for the piat will be more like upper-medium range for the bazooka, medium range for the shrek, and short range for a puppchen.

But this theory can be proven/disproven if you make a scenario with all of the AT teams equal distant from and enemy tank (use tanks that have similar silouette ratings). use the target command to get the % to hit, then see who comes out on top.

[tenfive2]

The PIAT was fired with a spring? It must have been something to cock! And this spring could throw a charge at what speed?

[Trooper]

Actually, not quite.

The PIAT is more accurately a spigot mortar. The projectile is actually propelled by an explosive charge at the base of the round. Here's how it works.

1) Cock the spring. Just as if you were pulling back the breech block on an FN-MAG, you're compressing it, ready to be released upon pulling of the trigger. This was not an easy thing to do, basically involing using your arms and legs. Took quite a bit of effort, I hear.

2) Drop the projectile in place, aim, and pull the trigger.

3) The spring is released, charging forward and strikes the primer at the base of the round, detonating the main charge which then sends the projectile flying towards the target. -Theoretically- the recoil effect of this should recock the spring for you, thus you would only need to cock it once per battle.

4) Unless you were built like Schwarzanegger, or solidly braced, what was more likely to happen was that the recoil would push -you- back, not the spring. So you would have to roll back over on your back (If you couldn't stand up due to people shooting at you), recock, and go at it again.

V0 was about 135m/s

Later

NTM

[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: Trooper ]

[Redwolf]

Up to 100m the Bazooka is more precise, above that the PIAT.

You can check the hit cheance display with the LOS tool in the editor when puling it over a tank.

[Ghost Dog]

My vote has to go to the PIAT.For sentimental

reasons alone. The last ASL game I played my opponent tried to overrun a PIAT crew with 3

AFV, all of them destroyed by said crew.And of course there is no chance of burning down

any trees and buildings.And its good healty fun winding up the apparatus.

Ghost Dog

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: Ghost Dog ]

[Hedgehog]

I like the PIAT because it is harder to tell where it is being launched from. I've had scenarios where a PIAT was shooting at me and I didn't even identify where the crew was. <----- thats what the PIAT crews were doing to my Kingtiger crews

[JohnCarp]

From what I've read, the PIAT spring was so strong that it typically had to be cocked by two men. For one man to cock it, he had to be very strong and he had to stand up and put all his weight into it, perhaps exposing himself to fire in the process. There was no "semi-automatic" recocking of the spring by the projectile as mentioned above.

I've gained respect for PIATs ever since one of my PIAT crews ambushed and damaged the gun of a jagdtiger that had been systematically destroying all of my precious churchills.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnCarp:

There was no "semi-automatic" recocking of the spring by the projectile as mentioned above.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seems to be lots of opinions about this.

Here's what Ian Hogg has to say in "Twentieth Century Artillery":

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

The weapon was first cocked, pulling the rod back against the spring, the bomb was laid in the through and the trigger pulled. The rod flew forward, entered the tail of the bomb and struck the cartridge, exploding it. The reaction drove the rod back into the casing, re-cocking it for the next shot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've read from somewhere else, that the re-cocking was not guaranteed to work every time. If the shooter didn't stand perfectly rigid, the blast wouldn't have enough strength to re-cock the weapon.

And from this forum: someones granpa (or something) shot with a piat. The explosive charge didn't go off but the spring still threw the projectile ten meters or so.

---

Oops. Trooper already gave most of this info,

and better too..

PS. Piat's better, but zook seems more accurate to me.

[JohnCarp]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

I've read from somewhere else, that the re-cocking was not guaranteed to work every time. If the shooter didn't stand perfectly rigid, the blast wouldn't have enough strength to re-cock the weapon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dug around a bit online out of curiosity - you are correct, take a look at:

Bazookas & PIATs

[Gyrene]

I've made miracle shots with both PIATs and Bazookas and also had both types of crews fire all their rounds with zero success.

I'd give the PIAT the edge solely on its stealthier nature, often times you get 3rd or 4th chance at a shot with PIATs long after zook teams have been spotted and terminated.

Gyrene

[Trooper]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnCarp:

Dug around a bit online out of curiosity - you are correct, take a look at:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course I'm bloody correct!!! It's scientifically impossible for me to ever be wrong. Any grades less than an 'A' in school are the fault of the grader simply misunderstanding me.

NTM

[acrashb]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redwolf:

Up to 100m the Bazooka is more precise, above that the PIAT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll second that. I recently finished a PBEM (AKotM tourney) with a disappointing score. Fundamentally, I was outfought, but: one of my opponents Hetzer's was the target of 34 (thirty-four) PIAT shots, all misses. A mixture of Regular and Crack teams, mostly in command. Average range 75 yards, max 130, min, 50. Thirty-four rounds.

And my last TCP/IP game showcased a stationary king tiger (my opponent thought the PIAT explosions were 2" mortar blasts) that evaded twelve rounds, at 70 yards. Teams were regular, rested, and in command.

What use is firing from buildings if they fly like a badly-thrown football?

I will only use them again reluctantly.

[gredeker]

While I can admire the stealthiness of the PIAT, my vote for favorite light anti-tank weapon has to go to the panzerschreck - because it means you're playing with German infantry and support weapons instead of British.

And let's not forget the panzerfaust, especially in late war scenarios. It creates a de facto armor exclusion zone around every infantry squad.

[G0gmag0g]

I would also guess that from the design and recoil that the PIAT would mainly have been fired from the prone position or at least using some support ie walls etc, unlike the others which could be fired without support.

[deadeye3]

Yeah redeker, you can leave now there's the door *points* Just kidding, but this is exactly why I entitled the post PIATs or Bazookas? We all know how deadly the Germans can be.

Deadeye3

[gredeker]

Sorry deadeye, I'll try to stay on topic.

I've got to go with the PIAT, just because of the stealthiness and the lack of self-immolation for the manning crew. I try to only shoot zooks from buildings in desperate situations, but then always seem to end up making the situation even more desperate.

[deadeye3]

No harm redeker, I was just giving you a hard time You can talk about anything you want!

Deadeye3

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JohnCarp:

Dug around a bit online out of curiosity - you are correct, take a look at:

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yikes! I had no idea they were so dangerous to operate. I thought they were abandoned just because they weren't that good.