Oorah and Hurrah... Origins

[Shep]

I ran across this in a recent study of the book of Revelation, of all things.

I always wondered about the origins of various battle cries, such as the USMC Oorah! and the seemingly related Hurrah! and Russian Urrah!

In ancient Greece, the tail of the formation on the march often contained the elite formation; what we would consider the rear guard. This rear guard would form up into the leftmost of the battle line in a set piece battle.

In Greek, "tail" is OURA. Hence, I believe, the battle cry. When Russians and Marines and elite formations of history make this chilling sound they are actually saying "Tail!!!" Which I know works really well as a modern double entendre... and also works to explain why everyone was so afraid of the Theban Sacred Band.

I have been looking for an instance where the hoplites made OURA into their battle cry, but alas nothing yet.

Still I expect the origin of the famous battle cry is in classical antiquity.

[Chupacabra]

I suspect the answer lies a bit further back than that.

Tip: turn on the TV. Find a nature show about apes/monkeys/chimps. Watch for the part when they get into a fight. Listen to them scream at each other.

[Runyan99]

Interesting theory, but I am skeptical.

Personally, I just think that Urahhhh, Oorah, and Hurrah are just really easy sounds to make while you charge into machineguns.

[Joseph Porta]

Personally, I just think that Urahhhh, Oorah, and Hurrah are just really easy sounds to make while you charge into machineguns.

What, like AAAARGH ?

[Nidan1]

I think the previous two posters may be on to something.

I cant speak for the Russian Urrah!

I know modern Marines shout something similar to Oorah!, but I am a Marine Corps Veteran of Vietnam and we never shouted anything other than stuff like "Godamn I hate this MFing Crotch" or "help me Mommy" I guess maybe "Urrah" or "OOrah" gives you more confidence then shouting "oh **** I;m gonna die!!" :eek:

[Michael Dorosh]

I think most of the professional soldiers that I've talked to (including Marines and Rangers) look at the OO-RAH nonsense the Marines, Rangers and etc. spout at each other as just that - juvenile. I don't think it can be really discussed in the same breath as the Russian use of such as a battlecry.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I think most of the professional soldiers that I've talked to (including Marines and Rangers) look at the OO-RAH nonsense the Marines, Rangers and etc. spout at each other as just that - juvenile. [snips]

Yeah, right.

However, I can vouch from personal experience that "Eat Plutonium Death, You Disgusting Alien Weirdos!" is a good deal more of an effort to shout accurately while attempting, for exercise, to deliver a properly grown-up bayonet charge.

All the best,

John.

[offtaskagain]

Isnt the Airborne shout "Hoooah" or something that sounds like that? IIRC it was formed from Heard, Understood, Acknowledged.

[Pak_43]

"Eat Plutonium Death, You Disgusting Alien Weirdos!"

Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in a loooong time!!

"we're space marines! we're glorious

we're steadfast,brave and true!

so don't you scumbags mess with us,

or this is what we'll do:

we'll kick your dogs

we'll nuke your schools

we'll stretch you on a rack

we'll borrow all your garden tools

and never give them back!"

There are another 46 versus of this tremendously catchy number...

Oh and I always thought the full Russian battle cry was "ooorah stalin" with the emphasis on the oooorah natch... (thinly disguised attempt to be relevant to topic...)

[Runyan99]

With regard to the Russians, I most commonly see just 'Urrahh!' or, as in Guy Sajer, 'Urrahh Pobieda!' which I translate as 'Urrahh Victory!'.

Never seen 'Urrahh Stalin!' in print.

[ August 29, 2002, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[Lars]

Originally posted by Joseph Porta:

What, like AAAARGH ?

No, no. 'Aaaauugggh', at the back of the throat. Aaauugh.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

Never seen 'Urrahh Stalin!' in print.

That's because, by the time they would get into the 'S', they were all mowed down by enemy machine guns.

At this point, Soviet arty observers would know where the enemy was and call the arty in.

[Shep]

As much of a stretch as it may seem, there is ample evidence in the development of Indo-European languages for similar phenomena:

Mater and Pater = Mother and Father, and many, many other examples.

Oorah and Huah are as abused as Semper Fi, that's true. The sounds you make and the words you say don't make you any tougher than the medals worn by a PX Ranger.

On the other hand, the Rebel yell sure did put the fear of God into a lot of Yankees, as did the urrah of a human wave.

[Joshik]

Shep -

Very interesting thread!

I did some research, and found that "hurrah" was common in the American military vocabulary by the time of the American Civil War. There are countless examples of songs with the word in it (like "When Johnny Comes Marching Home"). Here are some interesting pages:

Three Cheers and a Tiger

Marching Through Georgia

You propose an interesting thesis:

a) the Greek word for "tail" is OURA.

"In ancient Greece, the tail of the formation on the march often contained the elite formation; what we would consider the rear guard. This rear guard would form up into the leftmost of the battle line in a set piece battle."

Questions:

-is OURA ancient Greek or modern Greek? Is there a difference?

-was the ancient Greek military term for the elite unit OURA?

-is there any record of the ancient Greek military shouting OURA (presumably after a victory)?

You imply that there is a double-entendre link: tail/tail. Did the ancient Greeks use "tail" as sexual slang? I think your thesis runs into some problems here. By your arguments, OURA was yelled, meaning "here come the elite troops - be frightened!" or "you are a bunch of pussies - be offended!" But it couldn't of have meant both things at the same time. If all those definitions were linked, your elite troops would have to bear the brunt of all the jokes in the Greek military, i.e. "here comes the PUSSY brigade!"(1)

If there is a link between the ancient Greeks and "hurrah", it is probably your first postulation: they were an elite unit.

But I need proof! Find me some evidence that shows that was the name of the elite unit, and that the cheer was used by the Greeks.

I propose a different thesis, from the same time period: the Jews!

In Hebrew, "hu - rah" literally means "He is evil!" I can imagine the Israelites, after kicking some rival king's ass, shouting "he is evil!", either refering to the rival king, or the rival god. Sort of the ancient equivalent to "We are great! You suck! All your base are belonging to us! Nyah nyah nyah!" I think this usuage of "hurrah" is more in tune with how "hurrah" is used. The unwritten part of the cheer is "hurrah (we won)" or "hurrah (we are great)", and by extension, "you lost" or "you're not".

Is there any evidence to support my thesis? I have to do some more research. I did find one site that makes the "he is evil"/hurrah cheer connection:

1953 Purim Story

Of course, that only dates back to 1953. I would need to find examples of the ancient Israelites shouting "hurrah" or something similar.

I have found examples of "hurrah" showing up in Irish tunes of the early 1800's, the similar "huzzah" dating back to the American Revolution. I don't know how old the Russian "oorah" is, but a Greek or Hebrew origin would certainly explain the emergence of "hurrah" in different cultures.

Any ancient historians care to chime in?

-Joshik

(1) unfortunately, the Greek army has borne the brunt of many cruel and unfair jokes:

Q: What is the motto of the Greek army?

A: Never leave your buddies behind!

Q: How do you separate the men from the boys in Greece?

A: With a crowbar!

[ August 29, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Joshik ]

[Shep]

Joshik,

As I said, I am looking for an instance of OURA as a battle cry. OURA is classical and biblical Greek. I don't know whether it is modern. It was indeed the name of the elite rear guard/left of the line formation.

The "tail" joke was entirely mine. Since OURA describes exclusively the tails of predators, such as lions and "dragons," it would not indicate the human posterior.

As for the Hebrew, you left out the verb HAYYAH, but that's actually much more often the case. HU is he in Hebrew. But also HI (pronounced 'he') is she. All very confusing.

There is no use of the phrase 'he is evil' or HU-RA in any ancient Hebrew text that I could find.

However, in Josephus' Wars of the Jews, there is this passage:

(89) When they are to go out of their camp, the trumpet gives a sound, at which time nobody lies still, but at the first imtimation they take down their tents, and all is made ready for their going out; (90) then do the trumpets sound again, to order them to get ready for the march; then do they lay their baggage suddenly upon their mules and other beasts of burden, and stand, at the place for starting, ready to march; when also they set fire to their camp, and this they do because it will be easy for them to erect another camp, and that it may not ever be of use to their enemies. (91) Then do the trumpets give a sound the third time, that they are to go out in order to excite those that on any account are a little tardy, that so no one may be out of his rank when the army marches. (92) Then does the crier stand at the general’s right hand, and asks them thrice, in their own tongue, whether they be now ready to go out to war or not. To which they reply as often, with a loud and cheerful voice, saying, “We are ready.” And this they do almost before the question is asked them; they do this as filled with a kind of martial fury, and at the time that they so cry out, they lift up their right hands also.

Josephus, F., & Whiston, W. (1996, c1987). The works of Josephus : Complete and unabridged. Includes index. (Wars III, v 4). Peabody: Hendrickson.

That comes out in Hebrew in awkward fashion: ANANU KUN! Not real sure of the Aramaic. Wouldn't be too different I think.

[CaSCa]

I seem to remember reading many years ago that "oorah" was first used by the Turkish armies and was rooted in their word for "kill". It was later adopted by other armies.

I read this in either William Manchester's biography of Churchill "The Last Lion", or James (now Jan) Morris' "Pax Brittanica" triology. Unfortunately I don't have these books any longer, so I can't look it up.

Besides, I think some of the other suggestions are far more exciting than this one.

[ August 29, 2002, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: CaSCa ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I think most of the professional soldiers that I've talked to (including Marines and Rangers) look at the OO-RAH nonsense the Marines, Rangers and etc. spout at each other as just that - juvenile. [snips]

Yeah, right. </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

With regard to the Russians, I most commonly see just 'Urrahh!' or, as in Guy Sajer, 'Urrahh Pobieda!' which I translate as 'Urrahh Victory!'.

Everything sounds sexier in French, though, you know that.

[patolino]

Originally posted by Shep:

I ran across this in a recent study of the book of Revelation, of all things.

I have been looking for an instance where the hoplites made OURA into their battle cry, but alas nothing yet.

Still I expect the origin of the famous battle cry is in classical antiquity.

AFAIK Greeks when fighting Italians during WW2 would shout "aera" (or whatever that would be in greek letters). I'm told it means "breeze", can anyone confirm?

[Aloid]

Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph Porta:

What, like AAAARGH ?

No, no. 'Aaaauugggh', at the back of the throat. Aaauugh.</font>

[Lars]

Originally posted by Aloid:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lars:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph Porta:

What, like AAAARGH ?

No, no. 'Aaaauugggh', at the back of the throat. Aaauugh.</font>

[John Kettler]

R. Lee Ermey, a Marine staff sergeant invalided out by wounds received in Vietnam, addressed the matter

on his show Mail Call on the History Channel (U.S.). According to him, the origin of the Oorah!

(or however you spell it) is unknown, but he did note that Huzzah! was favored by American troops during the Revolutionary War and Hurray! during the American Civil War.

Regards,

John Kettler

[BloodyBucket]

The noise the Marines makes has uses. The sarcastic "Ooh-f*****g-Rah" is useful, and a good cheer at the right time is not unprofessional, as I see it.

I have noticed that junior Marines have turned it in to an almost universal, noncomital verbal greeting. If I hear "Oohrah, Master Sergeant," one more time as I make eye contact walking along I think I am going to gag.

Mostly it is harmless, but it is really getting overdone. It has been in common use for at least twentyone years that I know of, and where it comes from is a mystery to me. My two year old boy likes it.