aka_tom_w Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Is it the only tank to beakdown in the game? I have never heard the sound the King Tiger makes when it "grinds to a halt" I have heard other players say the KT just sounded like it gears stripped and it came to a stop and it was immobile for the rest of the game. Is that a mechanical failure? Does it happen to any other tanks in CMBO? Will we see more of this kind of thing in CMBB? comments from anyone who has had the KT "breakdown" in a game........ -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 happens only in difficult terrain like wet and muddy ground,dont try to cross through scattered trees too! snow isnt too good for the KT either,also the experience of the crew has influence on the % chance of immobilizing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 I don't think I have seen any other vehilces simply break down in CM, but that may be because they are the most likely to break down, and it is a rare occurrence at that. [ March 30, 2002, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Pvt. Ryan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 In wet ground I have had Tigers + Panthers break down. I would imagine the JagdTigers + Panthers are subject to this also but since I rarely even use them I have not observed this. When it is wet out side dont move fast with the Panther and you should be ok. Tigers + KTs are most likely best left on a road. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 There is a difference between breaking down and bogging down. When a vehicle bogs it goes into a bogged state and can then either become unbogged or immobilized. When a vehicle breaks down it immediately becomes immobilized. There is a different sound as well. Ground conditions don't necessarily have an effect on whether a vehicle breaks down. On the few occasions I have had KTs break down the ground was dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Tanks don't break down during combat. They break down during the drive too or away from combat, the distances in CM do not equal 100/200 KM drives. Breakdowns are not in CMBO either. [ March 30, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Bastables ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: Tanks don't break down during combat. They breck down during the drive too or away from. Break downs are not in CMBO either.This is also my understanding. However, the illusion of breakdown might occur when a tank bogs only very briefly. We're used to a tank being bogged for some time before it becomes immoblized--sometimes two or three whole turns-- but a couple of times I have had a tank immobilize almost instantly. In each case I was flabbergasted but when I watched the movie with that tank selected, I found that it bogged for a couple of seconds before immoblizing. I strongly suspect that's what happened in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 My memory might fool me, but I'm pretty sure I once long ago had a Tiger 1 became instanly immobile on a road without an enemy shot - breakdown. Was probably with 1.05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 31, 2002 Author Share Posted March 31, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: Tanks don't break down during combat. They break down during the drive too or away from combat, the distances in CM do not equal 100/200 KM drives. Breakdowns are not in CMBO either.well I wonder about this....... In CMBO there is special sound only the KT makes when the gears grind to a halt I have never heard it it does not happen very often.... BUT I think it is a real mechanical breakdown? thats why I posted this thread tanks did breakdown during combat but mostly they would break down on the way to or from combat as I understand it -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJungnitsch Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Originally posted by Gen-x87H: When it is wet out side dont move fast with the Panther and you should be ok. Tigers + KTs are most likely best left on a road.KingTiger may have better mobility over wet ground than the nominal ground pressure figure indicates. Heres a quote from another website discussion on Tiger mobility, which brings up MMP, or mean maximum pressure: By an interesting coincidence, yesterday I was answering to a person in a Brazilian military site, about armoured vehicles ground pressures. To answer his questions I had a look at a paper written by a Mr. D. Rowland entitled "A review of vehicle design for soft ground operation", published by the Defence Operational Analysis Establishment, Ministry of Defence, UK. For the ground pressure of vehicles, he defines what he calls Mean Maximum Pressure, given in KN per square meter (KN=Kilo Newton), and defines a formula for calculating it, based on trials with vehicles. For the Tiger 2 he gives for its MMP a value of 184. A few MMP for other tanks: Centurion X = 252 AMX-30 = 249 M-47 = 246 M-60 = 236 Leopard 1 = 198 Leopard 2 = 201 I have a xerox copy of it which was given me a long time ago by Dick Ogorkiewicz. Unfortunately it does not gives the date of the paper. We know at least that it was after the Leopard 2 was in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bastables: Tanks don't break down during combat. They break down during the drive too or away from combat, the distances in CM do not equal 100/200 KM drives. Breakdowns are not in CMBO either.well I wonder about this....... In CMBO there is special sound only the KT makes when the gears grind to a halt I have never heard it it does not happen very often.... BUT I think it is a real mechanical breakdown? thats why I posted this thread tanks did breakdown during combat but mostly they would break down on the way to or from combat as I understand it -tom w</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Originally posted by Paul Jungnitsch: KingTiger may have better mobility over wet ground than the nominal ground pressure figure indicates.Unfortunately, BTS does not do a finer model than pure ground pressure, AFAIK. There are a few tanks which I believe would have better going in difficult ground than CMBO gives them, that are the Tiger 1 (many round wheels, distributing forces over the track much better), and the StuG III, which has the torsion bar suspension of the Pz III, which should have way better going in difficult ground than the Pz IV chassic. In CMBO the StuG IV has very good going in difficult ground, and the III is almost unusable. Reading the frontline report in books like Spielbergers, I never see mention of the StuG IV being an improvement in mobility or tendency to bog down over the III, and Tigers 1 are considered to be slower than other tanks on roads and a bitch to tow after breakdown, but they were always regarded positive surprises when going in difficult ground on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Just wondering if this issue has been addressed for CMBB:Ground pressure, immobilization and bogging, mechanical breakdown(?) In other words, are KTs going to be useless off- road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: Tanks don't break down during combat.Oh really? Is this some fundamental law of the universe or somethink?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I should hope mechanical reliability is factored into the much-vaunted RARITY we get to have to restrict force purchases. Rarity is not just the raw numbers of AFVs built and deployed to the East, but the likelihood of them surviving the approach march. Early Panther did not have a good track record for this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: There are a few tanks which I believe would have better going in difficult ground than CMBO gives them, that are the Tiger 1 (many round wheels, distributing forces over the track much better)...As opposed, no doubt, to the square or triangular wheels of other designs? Actually, I notice that in CM all vehicles have octogonal wheels. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I should hope mechanical reliability is factored into the much-vaunted RARITY we get to have to restrict force purchases. Rarity is not just the raw numbers of AFVs built and deployed to the East, but the likelihood of them surviving the approach march. Early Panther did not have a good track record for this...CM is a tactical game, strategic and operational factors are irrelevant. Should the availability of a Brumbar in a particular QB, consider how many allied bomber raids were made that week or on partisan sabotage? Of course not. [ August 19, 2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Flammenwerfer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Bastables: BTS says otherwise on Tanks breaking down during CM combat and argued that it would be unrealistic for tanks to breakdown during combat. Some anecdotes at the least of Tanks breaking down during combat would be great.Don't know of any from 1944-45, but it seems to have happened a bit in the desert. The heavy Matilda IIs seem to have done it quite a lot in the early battles against the Italians, but they were running on the limit of their track mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Flammenwerfer: CM is a tactical game, strategic and operational factors are irrelevant. Should the availability of a Brumbar in a particular QB, consider how many allied bomber raids were made that week or on partisan sabotage? Of course not.Well duh, of course it should. Rarity should be based on actual numbers built, deployed, and likely to reach the battlefield - at least in special cases like the Panther. Perhaps you don't know what the rarity factor is supposed to do, but I am sure a search will provide you all the answers you need. Otherwise, how would YOU define rarity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 The early Russian tanks were VERY prone to break downs IIRC. I think that would be a nice little touch to have to worry about running the engine too hard for too long and breaking down. Even the early T34 models had engine problems. But, that sure would be annoying to have a tank just up and break down on you in the middle of a game! One of my most frustrating CM moments was when a Sherman 105 became immobilized in scattered trees on turn 1 of a 1000 point battle!!!! Chad Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 The first time the Tiger 1 went into battle (29 August 1942) 3 of teh 4 tanks broke down under fire - ie on the battlefield! One suffered a transmission failuer, one engine stopped and the third when its steering controls failed. All were recovered overnight. the 2nd action (22 Sept) one suffered an engine failure when hit by a shot that did not penetrate, and the other 3 weer "mobility" kills to artilery while trying to manouvre on soft ground. Clearly tanks could and did break down in combat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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