Are snipers good for anything...?

[ElGuapo]

Besides spotting/scouting?

I've never seen them kill much. In real combat they are basically there for terror purposes and can suppress an entire squad sometimes. But in CM, they seem to be pretty worthless to me except for scouting and spotting the enemy. Anyone have a different experience?

ElGuapo

[Agua]

They're pretty good at suppression of mortar teams. Targetted tanks will button up and if the tank commander is killed, the tank will stay buttoned for the remainder of the game.

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Agua ]

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: Agua ]

[Lah]

Best used supporting your tanks, they can really make a difference by making the enemy tank 'button up', and often not spotting your tank hunting it.

[Ellros]

I had two sharpshooters pin and rout the crews of 2 AT guns. So they are definitely worth it.

[Lah]

..and always get them veteran or the highest level possible.

[Dschugaschwili]

In one of my recent PBEM games I had a sharpshooter target an enemy Sherman and kill two men from the company HQ and one from the Bazooka team that were both riding on the back of that tank.

Forgot to mention: All this in one shot!

Dschugaschwili

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Dschugaschwili ]

[CrapGame]

I had an elite sharpshooter take out 2 arty spotter teams in a large qb versus the AI. They were id'd as infantry? until my advance passed them up close and they became arty spotters.

I now always like to have at least one on my team.

Crapgame

[Gen. Sosaboski]

I played "Grafenwohr" a while back as the British (yeah, strange, but I love the underdog) and won thanks to my two snipers. Combined they took out 2-3 FO teams and an entire 50mm mortar crew. Then, even though they were overrun, my Vickers and dug in rifle platoons had fun blunting the German assault from the hills in converging fields of fire.

Yes, they are worth it!

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Gen. Sosaboski ]

[offtaskagain]

Keep in mind that these guys aren't real snipers. They represent a Captain picking out the best shot in the company, not a real trained sniper which the Allies didn't really have much of during the war. You aren't going to get 1000 meter kills with these guys. I find them best for harassing TCs.

[Warmaker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panzerwerfer42:

Keep in mind that these guys aren't real snipers. They represent a Captain picking out the best shot in the company, not a real trained sniper which the Allies didn't really have much of during the war. You aren't going to get 1000 meter kills with these guys. I find them best for harassing TCs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This brings up a something. The Germans were well known to have established sniper schools w/ knowledge carried over from WWI and had them set up way before WWII. I believe the Russians too were believers early on in snipers but I could be wrong.

So, since the Germans had established snipers/schools, isn't it curious there are no actual German snipers in CMBO? :confused:

And for my 2 cents on sniper usage... getting intel and reconaissance with the sharpshooter is waaay to important for me to just have him take potshots at any passerby. Maybe when the main battle is underway, then things become more survivable for him as long as he's not in the thick of it. Somewhere along the flank spotting targets and taking out gun crews and TCs. Just make sure the target's valuable, not just a common rifle squad.

[ 05-30-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ]

[JasonC]

If you want to know what a realistic true sniper would do in CM, then buy 1, just 1, elite sharpshooter. Put him somewhere on your side of the map with some LOS, preferably of the "keyhole" variety toward a likely approach route, not a wide field of view. And not around your main forces.

Wait until he has a target, then take him off "hide" for 1 turn. He will shoot and probably get something. The following turn, withdraw-run him clear off your side of the map ASAP, through covered areas.

"But what impact will that have on my battle?" Little. And he doesn't care. He just does the above once or twice a week for the whole war, or until an unlucky artillery shell gets him. The result? Cost: one guy with a scoped rifle. Return: ~100 dead enemy. That is what real snipers do.

[Bog]

Keep in mind that when a sharpshooter fires a single shot it isn't really a single bullet. Each "bullet" of ammo represents a burst. I know it's hard trying to fire a bolt-action rifle in a burst, but it just represents the sharpshooter firing off 3 or so rounds as fast as he can.

I had a Crack FJ Sharpshooter in a building. As he hid, a 2 inch mortar team came into his sight about 100m away. He rose up, fired, killed the team.

Next, an PIAT team wandered up. Blam. The team dies.

Finally, an enemy sniper walks up in the same location. Another shot, and he dies.

They ARE worth it. A sniper is great for taking out these support teams, and of course buttoning tanks.

I thought of a funny scenario using only snipers. Sort of an "Enemy at the Gates" type situation.

[Panther G]

In a recent QB I had one Sniper take out 3 tank commanders, 2 halftrack gunners and some other assorted infantry. I think that their strongpoint is being able to kill enemy tank commanders (or at least making them button up) much better than a machine gun or rifle squad. I don't usually buy them in QB's, but if I do, I always buy Crack or Elite. They can be a usefull tool if used correctly.

Panther G

[Deadly Dave]

Ive found alittle trick that seems to work A sharpshooter hides over the brew of hill and waits for a tank to come into view . He shoots- enemy tank buttons. I then bring MY tank over lip (unbuttoned) of hill and get a shot or two in before he knows Im there.

[Immolator]

I may be using more sharpshooters in my games. In one recent PBEM QB, one of my 81 mm mortar teams kept having a morale problem. Panicking and running to the rear instead of getting to that point where they could lay down some fire on some enemy squad. Next thing I know 2 of the mortar team is dead and they weren't worth much for the rest of the game after they became broken. Later I realized it was a German sharpshooter who caused all the disruption as I managed to kill him, ran across his body and identified him. He was a good investment for the other side.

[Moriarty]

Sharpshooters can be very useful. It has been my experience they are most effective when left to select their own targets. If armor is approaching, they'll target the TC. When hit, the tank remains buttoned the remainder of the game (limiting visibility) and likely will be shocked for a turn or two. If a platoon is moving through the open, the sharpshooter will target the HQ. As noted, the sharpshooter also will tangle with any crew-served weapons and FOs.

Use the highest quality you can afford or is available, but don't overload your side ... they're not going to win the battle by themselves.

[Capricornelius]

Originally posted by JasonC:

one guy with a scoped rifle. Return: ~100 dead enemy. That is what real snipers do.

In real life snipers try to wound one guy so that he can draw out 4 or 5 others to help their mewling companion. This sets him up with a whole load of marks to bhoon down

[waltero]

I found snipers are good for drawing out enimy fire.

send two or three into one area and see what your enimy does to try and stop them (not knowing what thay are)then run them back and it looks like a rout!

Although you might find out that you have a moral problem!

I always think the flags are worth more than moral.

It is my understanding that if your moral falls below 32 than you are in trouble.

so to get all the flags and have moral below 32 would lose.

But to have all the flags and above 32 why not win?

I have played quit a few games that ended in a draw. Having all the flags and and fair moral.

(lower than 50)

enimy abouve 50 usually.

dont have the book to see how that works?

[Yggdrasill]

I find that to get really good results, of the type mentioned here, that you have to buy crack or elite sharpshooters. Veterans are better than regulars, but in my experience there is a huge qualitative jump when you move to the highest levels.

Snipers are great for spotting and suppressing, especially at longer distances where squad fire would be ineffective. A squad opening up at 500 meters would probably not make a tank button up, but a sniper pinging a shot off the turret will.

Also remember that a sniper is good at hiding from enemy units as they pass, so they can "infiltrate" behind enemy lines when you are defending. A good sharpshooter in an enemy's rear can wreak havoc.

[dasreich]

I have used sharpshooters to to go behind enemy forces (especially against an attacker) and take out their arty spotters or big guns (like howitzers or infantry guns) they have in the back for fire support. They are worth the points, especially if you have almost used them up and have about twenty points to spare

[YankeeDog]

The big problem for me with Sharpshooters thus far is keeping them alive. As noted above, they have lots of uses - buttoning up tanks is my personal favorite. They are also very expensive on a per-soldier basis. Once they're discovered, they're very likely to be taken out as it takes only one decent 'shot' to kill them, and a single high experience sharpshooter can be worth almost as much as some regular experience squads.

I guess I just need to be more careful about deployment and usage.

[Yggdrasill]

Ok, here's a thought off the top of my head. May be stupid, but here goes.

What if you paired a crack sharpshooter, or even several, with a platoon leader who had a good stealth bonus, and sent them to infiltrate enemy lines. The advantage of snipers is their ability to sneak and stay hidden. Already they are only one soldier. If you can increase that ability with a leader, you might be able to do some damage to mortars, artillery--those rear echelon units.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by Panther G:

I don't usually buy them in QB's, but if I do, I always buy Crack or Elite.

Panther G

How do you buy them as Crack or Elite in a QB then buy the rest of your troops as regulars or vets?

I didn't think that was possible.

Steve

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Yggdrasill:

Ok, here's a thought off the top of my head. May be stupid, but here goes.

What if you paired a crack sharpshooter, or even several, with a platoon leader who had a good stealth bonus, and sent them to infiltrate enemy lines. The advantage of snipers is their ability to sneak and stay hidden. Already they are only one soldier. If you can increase that ability with a leader, you might be able to do some damage to mortars, artillery--those rear echelon units.

I didn't really test, but I assume that the Sharpshooters do not benefit from HQs that much, especially not the stealth bonus.

They are quite sneaky to start from, I repeadently moved them right through enemey troops. Just stay out of open ground.

[ June 27, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[YankeeDog]

Originally posted by Yggdrasill:

Ok, here's a thought off the top of my head. May be stupid, but here goes.

What if you paired a crack sharpshooter, or even several, with a platoon leader who had a good stealth bonus, and sent them to infiltrate enemy lines. The advantage of snipers is their ability to sneak and stay hidden. Already they are only one soldier. If you can increase that ability with a leader, you might be able to do some damage to mortars, artillery--those rear echelon units.

Well, I can't speak to your overall intelligence, but this idea isn't such a bad one.

I see two problems with this idea:

1) You're going to have to commit a leader. I generally already have enough jobs for my Platoon and Company commmanders running squads and spotting for on-board mortars & c. It's not very often I have an extra one to send on an extended sojurn into enemy territory.

2) Giving your sharpshooter a leader with a stealth bonus may make him even stealthier, but you're also adding another, less stealthy unit to your incursion forces (i.e., the HQ). An HQ with a stealth bonus is pretty low profile, but still not as low profile as a sharpshooter. If the HQ gets spotted, it may put the Sharpshooter at risk as well, as you opponent is bound to assume that you have other units in the area.

I think the big thing I forget about sharpshooters is their really long range. Mention has been made of this thread of their effectiveness out to 500m. That means they don't really have to get all that deep behind enemy lines to cause damage on the average CM map. If I thought of finding good hiding spots with a 500m LOS to likely enemy heavy weapons locations, my Sharpshooter would probably get spotted a lot less often when they opened fire. . .

Cheers,

YD