Is it TRUE?????

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Doug Beman:

I have a serious question, the answer to which may have appeared in one of these many "European distribution" threads but was swamped under the load of invective and/or silliness that seems to coagulate around this topic like blood from a sucking chest wound.

Will PBEM files be interoperable between US-spec and Euro-spec CMBB? I'm assuming so, and am kinda curious as to how that works. Does the game engine know that what a US player sees as "SS Panzerhamstern" simply equates to what the Euro player sees as "something NOT called SS Panzerhamstern?"

DjB

That's one of the question that were answered in my interview .

[Prinz Eugen]

Originally posted by Stixx:

No worries mate, i totally agree with you and yes i did see the humerous side, just thought it may of been a bit heavy handed as the first reply to the first post of a CDV representitve

Stix

Great ! :cool: I'm behind CDV and BTS 100 % in this one !

And as I said, bring on the game !

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by tero:

Here in Finland the situation has been a little different. The official history was toned down until USSR collapsed. Until that time it was as it it was taken for granted some things about the war were tought at home. There was a rather strong leftist revisionist movement, especially in the 70's, trying to get the Soviet version of the truth superimposed over the Finnish one. Hence there were quite a few veterans remarking "I still say we won, damn it" when the Soviet version was being preached as the gospel truth.

We had the same movement (1968/69 in particular) in Germany, but actually it levelled the society, as at this time many (let's call them) "old-fashioned" people were still around.

Oh, sorry. I did not mean to come across like that. I'm not judging the German system in particular. I just find it a bit amusing there are people who think being subjected to restrictions of German origin are somehow worse than being subjected to restrictions of American origin.

Hehehe, that is really funny, as many countries still point with their finger on us (if not them then many Germans point on themselves) to show who was guilty, but then complain about German restrictions which actually are intented to avoid any despotism in future.

The unfortunate fact is most of the European economy is in the hands of the multinational corporations run from Japan or USA. Do you think they give a rats arse about the socionomic situation of the rank and file of the Eurpoean citizens as long as they get their cut ?

Not at all, but what can be done but restricting them to an appropriate attitude when and where possible?

As much and as well as any other lawsuit or trial of public interest.

But the proceedings are not being used as a platform for the accused so they can get their message publicized ?

Unfortunately in some cases: yes. Currently pending is the process of forbidding the extreme right wing party NPD (Nationaldemocratic Party of Germany), which is considered by many as a successor of the NSdAP (correct or not). The NPD actually exploits this to demonstrate the "arbitrariness" of the constitution.

Over here at least there is now a bit of a cotroversy going on as to how much is the responsibility of the state and the parents.

Old discussion here (resumed after the amok school massacre of Erfurt 3 months ago), but the Federal Constitutional Court has always emphasized the parents' role.

She thinks I should not let my sons watch war documentaries on Discovery with me. But at the same time she lets them watch Cartoon Network unescorted. IMO at least when watching the documentary I can explain the mayhem whereas in the cartoons it goes totally unexplained. Now, which would you think are less violent from a 4 year old's POV ?

I cannot agree more with you. However, this does not change anything of what I said.

BTW: if they were shipping the game to other European countries through an European company based outside Germany which has a warehouse in say Ahvenanmaa (you know it propably as Aland), which has a special taxfree status eventhough it is a part of Finland, would they still have to ship the German version ? Or would they be able to have a separate batch of the unaltered game for the non-German market ? They would not be importing or exporting it, they would just be shipping it using a subcontractor.

If the company is not registered (based) in Germany it can ship throughout Europe whatever it wants (but restricted to local national and European laws). But it could not IMport the stuff to Germany.

[ July 26, 2002, 04:29 AM: Message edited by: Ozzy ]

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by KNac:

If that was the point there would be less neo-nazis than there are, because even with all the banning neo-nazism is raising in east germany (apologies if I´m wrong, but it´s the last I read, feel free to correct me). However here we haven´t got any banning of flags of the civil war or Franco´s dictorship, or for any extreme-right parties and the fenomenon it´s very very very low. Please note that I´m not blaming anyone here.

Noted.

But the situation in Eastern Germany is different. There are many young people unemployed with poor perspectives. They grew up in a totalitaristic system (interestingly, the average age of the Neo-Nazis there is 18-25, i.e. they experienced socialistic school and youth organization (FDJ) education, but where not old enough to experience or understand the restrictions related to totalitarism). Heck, an ENTIRE nation, community, society, economy has been switched to another system within only one decade. It was predictable that this will cause some trouble.

Hence those young people are lacking of guidance. Which is provided by Neonazi "intellectuals" (who - small in number- actually come from WEST Germany to recruit new Neonazis in the East). What they do is simply faking a perspective, basically with the same methods as Hitler. That is an important danger, and must be responded appropriately. But I would bet that a better socioeconomic situation in East Germany would change this rapidly.

Regarding Spain: I have lived there for a certain time and experienced that there exists a latent hostility against foreigners as well, especially in the south and against people from Africa (los "moros", si quieres). The difference is that it is not shown publically via uniforms, symbols, or organizations. It is simply present in the every-days life, sometimes more, sometimes less.

It seems that as you say is permised for studies and investigations. It´s permised to publish a book with historical names and such but not games, is this true?

Absolutely correct. Games are not considered investigation or education.

For investigation and education you can use EVERYTHING, even Hitler's "Mein Kampf" or the "Horst-Wessel-Lied", which are prohibited to produce, sell or used in public.

[Ozzy]

Doug,

read Scipio's interview with Moon:

The only change will be 2 bitmaps and the unit name (hardcoded, where is the next hacker ), that is the ONLY difference in the game or game code. It will only affect the screen *appearance* of the CDV products, not the code.

Still remaining unanswered is the possible CDV copy protection, which for me is the huger show-stopper than actually those Waffengrenadiere.

[ July 26, 2002, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: Ozzy ]

[Doug Beman]

Originally posted by Ozzy:

Doug,

read Scipio's interview with Moon:

The only change will be 2 bitmaps and the unit name (hardcoded, where is the next hacker ), that is the ONLY difference in the game or game code. It will only affect the screen *appearance* of the CDV products, not the code.

Still remaining unanswered is the possible CDV copy protection, which for me is the huger show-stopper than actually those Waffengrenadiere.

Sorry; I'd skipped right down to the stuff about "will WaffenSS be in the game?" since, [sarcasm]w/o them, CMBB won't be worth buying [/sarcasm]

DjB

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Ozzy:

Doug,

read Scipio's interview with Moon:

The only change will be 2 bitmaps and the unit name (hardcoded, where is the next hacker ), that is the ONLY difference in the game or game code. It will only affect the screen *appearance* of the CDV products, not the code.

Still remaining unanswered is the possible CDV copy protection, which for me is the huger show-stopper than actually those Waffengrenadiere.

Ozzy,I got message from CDV today that they will make an interview with me within the next two weeks. I hope I can bring some light in the 'copy-protection' issue. Maybe they have also something new regarding the versions for the other European countries. Martin wasn't sure about that point.

[KNac]

Thanks for all the info Ozzy.

I must recognize that I overexagerated the question and I´m going to buy the game anyway, and more if it can be changed (but I sriusly dude that it will be possible to do), probably I had too much free time the day I posted that.

However returning to the info Ozzy gave me. Well, I also hadn´t got into account that "l Transición" happened 27 year ago and Germany had it´s own "Transición" just a decade ago. I say this because before it happened radical right people (Falange and the rest of fascist) still existing in the streets, and even there was people with their blue t-shirts. So I think it´s normal.

About the other type of racism, yes it exist, and I must recognize it, and it´s a part of the population not only extreme right people. But it exist mostly against Morocco and some african people, as you said (not in anyway towards any european country or America). Also that have it´s own social reason (should I say drugs & crime?).

S! And thanks for the interview!

[Redwolf]

Ozzy's description of the East German situation above is first-class. Go it read it if you haven't already.

Scipio, if you do the interview, ask CDV whether ejecting a CD of one of their existing game that is protected with the protection they have in mind for CMBB will crash the computer. (it better doesn't!).

[ July 26, 2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[KNac]

I forgot to say that in the TV documental I saw about nowadays situation in this subject (in Germany) said exactly what Ozzy said. It was really very well done. It pointed out that much of the reason was because ob economical situation (as usually, as happened in Germany in the 30s).

I know it´s a bit off-topic but I saw yesterday a good film "American History X" that show us how bad are all the crap around the world. Should I ask, how is the situation in USA about all this, is as bas as the film pointed out (I mean in numbers of neonazis)? I specially don´t understand how the contry that fought against it have it in his heart now. Well, it´s all around the world and I suppose it will be for a long time

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Achim Heidelauf:

Olle - for your info:

the European version will contain a printed manual plus a pdf.

"Distribution media: CD-ROM lookalike (Corrupted CD)" --> what do you know about our manufacturing plans that I don't know?

Achim

CDV Rep.,

A few questions we would like direct answers on if would please.

Do users of the products you distribute have problems with the copy protection?

Is it a fact as some users report that the CDV copy protection scheme is not to a standard that all CD-ROM players can handle?

That in fact the copy protection scheme used has known limitations?

One of these limitations being the CD itself must remain in the drive at all times while the program is being run?

Can the purchaser make a usable copy for archival / back up purposes?

From what I can gather from the statements of others, all the above and maybe more are truly serios limitations of the copy protections scheme your company uses. Please let me know. I do not understand how you can add something to a product that diminishes it's usability.

[Marlow]

Originally posted by tero:

The unfortunate fact is most of the European economy is in the hands of the multinational corporations run from Japan or USA. Do you think they give a rats arse about the socionomic situation of the rank and file of the Eurpoean citizens as long as they get their cut

Don't blame us for your problems. The number of U.S. and European corporations among the world's largest are about evenly split. In the top 50, it is about 20 U.S., 20 E.U. with the rest from Japan.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Scipio:

Ozzy,I got message from CDV today that they will make an interview with me within the next two weeks. I hope I can bring some light in the 'copy-protection' issue. Maybe they have also something new regarding the versions for the other European countries. Martin wasn't sure about that point.

while you have the chance, I would be interested what CDV's assessment/opinion on CMBO is. After all, they are currently running a TV commercial advertising the new sudden strike 2 as the "most authentic ww2 game yet" (or something very close to that, I watch little TV and only saw the ad once, but the claim of unprecedented authenticity/realism struck me). To me this sounds as if CMBO didn't rate very well on their realism scale.

[Battlefront]

I think I can answer this one...

One of these limitations being the CD itself must remain in the drive at all times while the program is being run?

I am pretty sure that the copy protection only checks the game during the initial boot proceedure. After that it is like any other CD. Since Combat Mission doesn't look to the CD for information at all (i.e. everything should be on the hard drive), I don't think there will be any problem with the removal of the CD after the game is booted.

Also keep in mind that this is not "CDV's" copy protection software. They are using a product called SafeDisk, which is rapidly becoming a standard for protecting software. If there are problems with this software the only fault CDV has is that they use it, not that CDV itself screwed things up.

Steve

[Battlefront]

And if anybody is interested, there is (yet another) discussion about the Waffengrenadier issue in the General Forum. Of particular note are my posts as well as the one from M. Hofbauer on Page 2.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=003654

Steve

[Redwolf]

The one safedisk-protected game I play often enough to bother about does not only end the game when you remove the disk but crashes the computer.

It would be nice to get a definitite statement from CDV on this, I assume they already have other games protected with whatever they plan to do to CMBB.

[ July 26, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Treeburst155]

According to this,

http://www.macrovision.com/solutions/software/cdrom/

one of the primary features of SafeDisk is to prevent users from using a program copied to HD without the CD in the drive.

Treeburst155 out.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Achim Heidelauf:

Olle - for your info:

the European version will contain a printed manual plus a pdf.

"Distribution media: CD-ROM lookalike (Corrupted CD)" --> what do you know about our manufacturing plans that I don't know?

Achim

CDV Rep.,

A few questions we would like direct answers on if would please.

Do users of the products you distribute have problems with the copy protection?

Is it a fact as some users report that the CDV copy protection scheme is not to a standard that all CD-ROM players can handle?

That in fact the copy protection scheme used has known limitations?

One of these limitations being the CD itself must remain in the drive at all times while the program is being run?

Can the purchaser make a usable copy for archival / back up purposes?

From what I can gather from the statements of others, all the above and maybe more are truly serios limitations of the copy protections scheme your company uses. Please let me know. I do not understand how you can add something to a product that diminishes it's usability.</font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

And if anybody is interested, there is (yet another) discussion about the Waffengrenadier issue in the General Forum. Of particular note are my posts as well as the one from M. Hofbauer on Page 2.

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=003654

Steve

Steve, why don't you just post this information to a thread and leave it as the top thread on the board?

[Munter]

Originally posted by redwolf:

The one safedisk-protected game I play often enough to bother about does not only end the game when you

remove the disk but crashes the computer.

I can answer to that.

I have the CDV version of CM:BO (yes, the one with an extra mod CD) and have NOT, repeat, NOT noticed any problems with the product (apart from that I still haven't been able to see the intro movie). The CD can be removed from the drive during the game and replaced with, I don't know... Tannhäuser, for instance, without any system crashes taking place.

[ July 27, 2002, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: Munter ]

[Naja]

Amen tero....I find you the most sensible minded person on the BBS. If you will send me you e-mail addy I wrote a long response to the earlier posts unfortunately I find the timing unproductive..one thing worth posting I suppose is ..... Being propositioned by my Danish sister in law on the fundamental good of Communists (of course she complained about the taxes and expect me to facilitate with the importing of vintage Benz) I say "sure the Communists sounds great!!! We are all the same?.. Ok as long as there is not one person who desires more then me I am all for it...since of course I would be the supreme leader and would not want a garbage man too get any ideas". As a side note a good many people are alive who know the names of combatants in WWII. Words still have a meaning and this is not Dragoons and nymphs these are virtual representations of people who died for there country? ..good or bad still a game sure

[SuperSulo]

No way I will play with a "Waffengrenadier"-version. I hope the "warez" version will be derived from the US version, as most seems to be. I will play with that, and let the CDV version rest on my bookshelf, just as I do with CMBO. No "no total censorship" censorship for me, I'm not an underaged kid in eastern Germany.

Mmm 20 September, only 8 days from my birthday. Thanks for the early present, BFC/BTS!

[Battlefront]

Redwolf:

It would be nice to get a definitite statement from CDV on this, I assume they already have other games protected with whatever they plan to do to CMBB.

Yes, they copy protect all their products. Including a nice little game called Combat Mission - Beyond Overlord which has been on the market in Europe now for almost a year. See Munter's first hand account.

Treeburst, you are correct about that being the purpose. However, my understanding is that the CD must be present only when the game is launched since it decrypts from the CD itself. But after that, there should be no problem. Think about it logically... the protection is there to ensure that a CD is used, which is what happens during boot up, so what is gained by checking during run time? The only thing that would eliminate is a LAN party using one legit copy to start up two games, which is such a minor concern I doubt they would even think of that being a problem.

Michael,

Steve, why don't you just post this information to a thread and leave it as the top thread on the board?

I already did that before. It doesn't work. When someone wants to make a mountain out of molehill, pretty much nothing we can do will avert it.

Steve

[DougieB]

I have Uk vers of CMBO from CDV and it also has "Waffengrenadieres" as SS without runes.

CMBB will be the same :mad: I usually buy DVDs from the States(via Airmail) and if brought in singly there is usually no Customs charge. It is only when multiples are sent that UK customs take their cut. Hope this is of some help. I hope to buy CMBB via the States if I can get it. Although all the Mods I have D/loaded from the various CMBO sites work with the CDV vers Waffengren not withstanding.