GreenGriffon Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: We just hope MOD designers could refer to more reliable information before the making of MOD and dont release the totally wrong or obviously inaccurate MODs to mislead the fans. Not all mods created by the fans here are historically accurate (not to infer that Andrew's is not). Some mods are done out of sheer artistic creativity and look damn good either way. I'm fairly certain that nobody is trying to mislead you, but if you think they are, then here's an idea - spend countless hours of your own time doing your own research, find out what is accurate, and then only download the mods that YOU think are appropriate. As a wise person recently said, "Vote with your modem". There is quite a bit of difference between constructive criticism and your method of "submitting suggestions" in this thread. Among other memorable quotes, Rostik's comment that Andrew "waisted [sic] his time" doing these mods is just one shining example of what truly bothers me here. Constructive criticism usually doesn't lead to an artist being insulted by your crudeness. If you're going to criticize, I have 3 words for you..... Show some tact. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 HOFMAN seems so convinced that what is out there is incorrect, but in all her constant bleating, chirping and harping, she has yet to provide a single shred of documentary evidence as to what it is she believes a proper uniform should look like. If HOFMAN can't provide scans showing what is correct, how about taking some of the available pictures of present uniform mods, and pointing out what is wrong? That would at least be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffon Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Better yet, HOFMAN could pick up a copy of Photoshop and get to work on a new 100% accurate russian uniform mod for us. Then we could all be overly critical, ungrateful, and insulting in return GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbertles Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 (note: this is a repeat of a post that I placed on the MOD FAQ and Etiquette thread) Having read though the recent threads on modding and etiquette, here is my two cents for what it's worth: [Note that I have never modded, though I often download and use them. But it's something that I look forward to doing in the future, as time presents. Also, note that I have played CMBO avidly nearly since it came out, and CMBB from the moment it shipped, so I don't consider myself a newbie, although I am a late-comer to the forum (just got broadband, hooray!).] But being a teaching artist (a profession that requires that you are both an artist of some kind as well as a teacher), I have a certain prospective on artistic criticism. For those of you who are modding - great; THANKS! and keep on going. Consider letting us know what your sources are - books, original photos (b&w? or color? Beware colorized b&w!), movies, whatever. Let us know also if you are striving for some kind of cool artistic interpretation or strict reality. But modders, also be aware that when you put your stuff out there it becomes public domain in the matter of criticism. Any artist (or game programmer, for that matter) who has gotten bad reviews in the press (and I count myself in that group) knows that all artists have to be somewhat thick-skinned AND ego-centric. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with the criticism in whatever way it comes, but you do have to put up with it. It very quickly becomes clear whose criticism is relevant/meaningful/informed and whose is not. For those who use the mods and have criticisms/comments to make - well, that is our right and duty! However, it might make things a little easier if we were all a bit more constructive in our criticisms/comments. Don't just mention the sources of your disagreements, document them, or mention the names of the books/movies/etcs that you base them on. The grogs that inhabit these caverns have very definite opinions on the validity of many of these sources. Listen to them, even if you don't agree. That is, after all, why this is called a forum... If you have scans to document your claims and don't have a website to upload them to, I'm sure some interested parties here will help you find ways to display these images in the name of increased reality in the game. It also behooves us to remember that we are talking about giant armies of millions of men with varying types of equipment. There is bound to be a certain deviation from front-to-front, outfit-to-outfit, supplier-to-supplier, etc. But most of all, try to contribute to the general drift of this game and forum. We are all striving to not only have fun with these games, but root them in the reality of what actually happened 60 +- years ago. Try to enter it with the spirit of a community of CMBO/BB gamers in mind, rather than issuing edicts and put-downs. Very few of us were actually alive and aware during that time, so we have to rely on second-hand sources - which may or may not be accurate! So be generous as well. Personally, I think the modding thing is fantastic, and am constantly amazed at the amount of time and work that the modders put in - as well as the appreciation with which they are generally received. It would be a shame to have that community-spirit kind of thing disappear from this forum. And that, ladies and gents, is my humble opinion. Thank you and good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Poisz Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Hofman just doesnt seem to understand that the soviet army wore more than just one standard uniform. And dont talk about American movies because i haven't seen one yet (about the eastern front that is). My Russian grandfather (now living in Holland) fought near Bjelgorod, lost a foot by a mine while on a scouting mission and is still alive so it was just a question I asked him to make me know this. I am sorry but i tend to believe someone who was there at the time more than your friend from the Ukrain. Everybody looking at pictures from the eastern front can see that there is not just one uniform. The uniform mod made by Andrew is showing just one of those correct uniforms. It is impossible to paste them all on one body. As stated before, is it really that hard for you to look at the link posted by Foxbat, showing uniforms worn by the soviets ? They are replica's ! (which means they look like the real thing). Please tell us you understand this. Anyway Hofman, I wish you goodluck and Merry Christmas and a Happy Newyear as I dont feel the need to convince you any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted December 25, 2002 Share Posted December 25, 2002 Wow, a Russian criticizes a Westerner's attempt at modding a Russian uniform?!?!!? I'm astounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by MrNoobie: yeah what foxbat says. he's my number 1 guy if i need info on the ruskies!Thanks noob, I'm honoured. Especially considering you are probably everyone's nr 1 when it comes to russian armor mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by Mr.Poisz: As stated before, is it really that hard for you to look at the link posted by Foxbat, showing uniforms worn by the soviets ? They are replica's ! (which means they look like the real thing). In fact they sell both replica's and geniune uniforms (eg STJ1.Soviet mid war Telogreika padded winter jackets.Soviet made.unissued. jackets Available in size 5,6. $199.95) so they better be accurate because customers will have the opportunity to see the replica alongside the real thing. Looking at those pics and the mod I can only say that Andrew has come as close to the real thing as is possible in CMBO (which is in fact a lot better than I would have ever expected). jbertles> Right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFMAN Posted December 26, 2002 Author Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HOFMAN: [qb]Mr.Poisz , Put up or shut up. Let's see some of your scans. Otherwise - you are just a troll and I suggest everyone stop responding to him until such time as he ponies up some hard info. Andrew Fox has nothing to prove to any of us as far as I am concerned, he's done that already.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0tten Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HOFMAN: [qb]Mr.Poisz , Put up or shut up. Let's see some of your scans. Otherwise - you are just a troll and I suggest everyone stop responding to him until such time as he ponies up some hard info. Andrew Fox has nothing to prove to any of us as far as I am concerned, he's done that already.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: You expletive deleted, I have sent some guys pictures for their reference. I could send any one the pictures which they want to get for their MODS.But I wont give u anything. Becuause you dont deserve that.I wasn't aware I had asked for anything... Honestly, you're nothing but a troll and I see Andrew has had the good sense not to respond to you further. Pity I didn't as well. Keep up the good work Andrew, you've been through this before. I'm sure you have all the reference material you need, but if you do need one or two scans of Russian stuff, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFMAN Posted December 26, 2002 Author Share Posted December 26, 2002 Honestly, you're nothing but a troll and I see Andrew has had the good sense not to respond to you further. Pity I didn't as well. Keep up the good work Andrew, you've been through this before. I'm sure you have all the reference material you need, but if you do need one or two scans of Russian stuff, let me know.[/QB]WHAT AN IDIOT U ARE! U NO NOTHING ABOUT RUSSIAN BUT STILL PLAY CMBB. U SHOULD BE SHAMEFUL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGriffon Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: WHAT AN IDIOT U ARE! U NO NOTHING ABOUT RUSSIAN BUT STILL PLAY CMBB. U SHOULD BE SHAMEFUL.Oh that's rich....now I've heard everything. If it weren't for an American company, you wouldn't be playing CMBB at all, comrade. By the way, Mr. Dorosh here knows more about WWII than you could ever hope for in 50 lifetimes. [ December 26, 2002, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: GreenGriffon ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: HOFMAN, This tantrum of yours serves to no ones advantage, least of all, the Russians. Lighten up. If you want to help spread knowledge of the Red Army, then do so in a manner that will increase interest. All I see you doing is burning bridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Being a Ukrainian, I do tend to distance myself from the Russians Perhaps we would be better off using the term "Red Army" or perhaps "Soviet Union" or somesuch? "Russians" just seems to remind me of the guys who so bravely arranged for the starvation of millions of my forefathers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Being a Ukrainian, I do tend to distance myself from the Russians Perhaps we would be better off using the term "Red Army" or perhaps "Soviet Union" or somesuch? "Russians" just seems to remind me of the guys who so bravely arranged for the starvation of millions of my forefathers...I'm only half Ukrainian but I agree... After all the Soviet Union wasn't just Russia. From the pictures I have seen the Red Army mods in CMBB look right. And another thing to note, is that CM's infantry models can't handle some of the things that they did in real life. [ December 26, 2002, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Panzerman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: The skins and models for german in CMBB are good in CMBB. There is really a strange fact in almost all of WWII games, of which the models of german are much more realistic than those of russian. I dont know why that always occured. I have checked the uniform and helmets for red army in CMBB and found no one is fully correct. Especially for the winter uniform of russian in late war, its almost ridiculous. Well I'm sure that Valera Potapov would be very disapointed with your views, given that he devoted a lot of his time as Historical consultant during the development of CMBB. Btw I would trust his contribution far more that I trust yours. Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 You calling Dorosh an idiot and that he doesn't know anything about WWII. Maybe you should look at some of his many websites and references. He has more knowledge on WWII than most people here. You abviosly need to be taught some manners and anger control. No need to call people names here, simply answer his questions, show some evidence and pictures for the modders to go by. If you come in here demanding things to be done and call people names, I doubt that will get you a mod or any help at all. It might even get you banned at the end. So watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: WHAT AN IDIOT U ARE! U NO NOTHING ABOUT RUSSIAN BUT STILL PLAY CMBB. U SHOULD BE SHAMEFUL.Mr. Hofman, be nice and stop shouting. Junior be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Did Mike make HOFMAN angry on purpose, so that there would be much growling and showing of teeth, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Any takers on bets to see how long before Hofman gets a ban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Being a Ukrainian, I do tend to distance myself from the Russians Perhaps we would be better off using the term "Red Army" or perhaps "Soviet Union" or somesuch? "Russians" just seems to remind me of the guys who so bravely arranged for the starvation of millions of my forefathers...Ok, that's gotten me completely confused (which is quite a feat considering the rest of this thread), but I was under the distinct impression that while things were never all that great between russians and ukranians the Ukranians hated the Soviet-Union with a passion becaue the soviets ..uh.. arranged for the starvation of millions of their forefathers. In fact I thought that that was the main reason for fighting soviet occupation right up until the sixties. :confused: btw: since I'm ranting about being confused about Ukranians I would like to use the opportunity to bring up two other things about the Ukraine that mightily confuse me: 1) why is the Ukranian translation of 'Red Devil' Chervonyj Chort and not Krasnoyi Short? Does the clor change once it crosses the russo-ukranian border? 2) What happened after 1991, the Ukraine has a history of being an area of great resources, wealth, culture and refinement especially compared to their northern neighbour. Did everyone go bonkers, or did emigration strip away the best and brightest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by r0tten: I wonder what you argue about? Is there anything I've missed right now?!Nothing is the answer to both questions, the argueing is about whether or not the russian inf mods are great or crap. And it has been established in post 3 that they are great and historically correct. The rest of the thread has involved one side wailing, moaning, bitching and cussing and the other side explaining the same thing over and over again but in ever more terse formulations. In other words SNAFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 26, 2002 Share Posted December 26, 2002 Originally posted by HOFMAN: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HOFMAN: [qb]Mr.Poisz , Put up or shut up. Let's see some of your scans. Otherwise - you are just a troll and I suggest everyone stop responding to him until such time as he ponies up some hard info. Andrew Fox has nothing to prove to any of us as far as I am concerned, he's done that already.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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