CM 3

[gunnergoz]

Thanks, Captain Wacky, you cleared that up nicely for me. What is Schrullenfaft's particular "in" as to this info, if you know? Was he a beta tester or is he a BTS team member?

[Captain Wacky]

He is not an official member of the development team as far as I know, but I believe he is a beta tester, and that his sole command of the tech support section gives him a special relationship with the team, and is apparently privy to such decisions-but probably has no influence on them.

The man, the myth, the legend

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

He is not an official member of the development team as far as I know, but I believe he is a beta tester, and that his sole command of the tech support section gives him a special relationship with the team, and is apparently privy to such decisions-but probably has no influence on them.

I often marvel at Shrulli's replies to arcane 3D card problems on the Tech. Support Forum. I don't understand them very often, but I marvel at them.

[pavlov]

Umm, okay guys, this should settle the CM3 question, two words:

Channel Islands!

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by pavlov:

Umm, okay guys, this should settle the CM3 question, two words:

Channel Islands!

You mean like Santa Catalina? Don't forget your surfboard.

Michael

[ September 14, 2002, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[Cull]

We're not getting a pacific CM unless we mod it. That much I'm sure of.

So the reason this won't happen is the game engine? The logical assumption would probably be that they would want to cover the major theaters with the first two (three, four?) games, then delve into the lesser-known aspects (Balkans, China, whatever) of each with future games. But, if it's the engine that is not compatible...

IIRC Steve(BTS/BFC) specifically ruled out any CM set in the Pacific. The CM engine (/type of game that CM is) and the type of fighting in teh Pacific don't match very well.

...

then I guess that's that. Still, why not do an engine rewrite if that's what it takes? I can't imagine the Pacific theater will just be ignored by future CM!

I understand that the dynamics of combat in the Pacific theater maybe just don't make fun games, i.e., the "slugfest" aspect doesn't lend well to tactical decision-making, etc. If that's the reason (or if The Guys just aren't interested in that theater) than so be it. It seems a shame though, that the other "half" of the war would be left out of CM. I guess my fantasy is that CM become the complete and definitive WWII gaming series. In X years, I want to look at my game collection, see about 10 cds in my CM collection, and say "Hmmm...what part of WWII do I want to recreate today?".

A boy can dream.....

[Captain Wacky]

BTS have flat out said many times that they have NO interest in doing a Pacific theater game. I never caught the reasons for it, but I think the engine could still accomodate it.

Hopefully the next engine will make CM a fully-modable game, where we can add units and modify stats & such, tweak 3-d models, etc. If that's done in a user-friendly manner we can expect a plethora of total conversions for the CM titles. A Korean mod, a Vietnam mod, nothing would conceivably be out of the question. And with the talent and brains of many people on this forum, we could expect some truly top-notch conversions. Modding would extened the life of CM games for years after they are released.

Just look at Half Life. It's absolutely incredible that a game in this day and age, and a shooter nonetheless, could hang around and still be great in a genre based so much on technological advancement. You can thank modding, and the developers' willingness to let the game be modded, for that.

That's my "I Have a Dream" speech for CM, if you will

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

BTS have flat out said many times that they have NO interest in doing a Pacific theater game. I never caught the reasons for it, but I think the engine could still accomodate it.

Hopefully the next engine will make CM a fully-modable game, where we can add units and modify stats & such, tweak 3-d models, etc. If that's done in a user-friendly manner we can expect a plethora of total conversions for the CM titles. A Korean mod, a Vietnam mod, nothing would conceivably be out of the question. And with the talent and brains of many people on this forum, we could expect some truly top-notch conversions. Modding would extened the life of CM games for years after they are released.

Just look at Half Life. It's absolutely incredible that a game in this day and age, and a shooter nonetheless, could hang around and still be great in a genre based so much on technological advancement. You can thank modding, and the developers' willingness to let the game be modded, for that.

That's my "I Have a Dream" speech for CM, if you will

AWI and ACW mods. WooT!!!

[Captain Wacky]

:confused:

[AUSSIEJEFF]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

BTS have flat out said many times that they have NO interest in doing a Pacific theater game. I never caught the reasons for it, but I think the engine could still accomodate it.

Hopefully the next engine will make CM a fully-modable game, where we can add units and modify stats & such, tweak 3-d models, etc. If that's done in a user-friendly manner we can expect a plethora of total conversions for the CM titles. A Korean mod, a Vietnam mod, nothing would conceivably be out of the question. And with the talent and brains of many people on this forum, we could expect some truly top-notch conversions. Modding would extened the life of CM games for years after they are released.

Just look at Half Life. It's absolutely incredible that a game in this day and age, and a shooter nonetheless, could hang around and still be great in a genre based so much on technological advancement. You can thank modding, and the developers' willingness to let the game be modded, for that.

That's my "I Have a Dream" speech for CM, if you will

Not a bad speech either, Capt! That's the way I'd like to see the game progress too.

All the great, long lasting sim games out there like Flight Simulator, Links, GP4, F12K AND not forgetting CMBO {bolded out of RESPECT}, to name just a few, have all got extensive mod capabilities in either graphics areas or game parameters.

This flexibility to personalise the game creates massive mod communities pouring what must be collectively MILLIONS of man/woman-hours across all these moddable games, ensuring a relatively long "life" for the game.

Definitely the WTG IMO.

AJ

[ September 15, 2002, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: AussieJeff ]

[Chad Harrison]

I dont know about CMBB being CM2. Thats like when the released Doom II. There was very minor changes, all they did was come up with a new story and remarket the sucker!

I see CMBB being, in a way, an expansion pack to CMBO. It adds new features and such, but the engine is the same. For other games nowadays, the second game in the series (usually) has a engine rewrite and a whole bag of BIG changes. Just look at Wolf 3D to Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

Regardless, I cant wait for the engine rewrite.

Chad

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

I dont know about CMBB being CM2.

As I posted earlier, it is CM2 for the simple reason that it is the second game in the series. What's so hard about that? It's just a naming convention so that we all know what we are talking about. To argue to change it creates nothing but confusion.

Michael

[Yeknodathon]

So, does the Scunthorpe add-on pack (including horses and motorcycles) come between CM2 and CMII-1?

Where can I pre-order?

Yeknod

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Yeknodathon:

So, does the Scunthorpe add-on pack (including horses and motorcycles) come between CM2 and CMII-1?

Where can I pre-order?

Yeknod

Shouldn't that be horse and motorcycle?

[L4Pilot]

Just to add to the confusion, I wouldn't mind seeing a CMBO ver 2, i.e. West Front revisited using the CMBB engine. No new programming (or not much), just a few new vehicles, plus the neat improved mechanics and eye candy from CMBB.

And I'd certainly pay "full boat" for it - $45 cash American.

Wouldn't slow down the CMII engine rewrite much, and it mught provide some useful cash flow to help that noble project!

Anybody else?

L4Pilot

"Slow Airplanes and Fast Women"

[IronChef4]

Yes, I'd like to see a CM in Korea.

[Michael Emrys]

Well then, how about Combat Mission: Revenge of the Pink Pantaloons?

Michael

[Battlefront.com]

Hi guys,

Just a bit of info to clear things up...

We have made no official statements about what we are going to do next, beyond saying that we are rewriting the engine from the ground up. We haven't even come up with a good name for this project yet

One thing is for sure... the Pacific Theater is not in the cards. As has been mentioned by a few posters here, it is not going to happen. The main reasons are that CM is what it is because Charles and I (and to a large extent others as well) have a lot of personal knowledge and interest in the ETO. We do not have either the knowledge nor the interest to do the Pacific Theater. Therefore, we do not feel that we could do that theater very well both from a technical and from a motivational standpoint. And since it is a much less popular theater than the ETO (in terms of ground warfare at leeast), it also doesn't make much sense to move to the Pacific. This has all been said before, but obviously it needs to be said again

The new engine will *not* be a "wargame developer's kit", so do not expect to be able to plop in your own 3D models, game data, units, terrain, etc. Even if we wanted to hand out this much game to people, it is a very difficult design goal to obtain (you have no idea how difficult!). If we were going to sell an open system we would probably charge $100+ for it since we would be pissing away sales opportunities. Unlike Halflife and other whiz bang games, an open CM engine would be a viable form of competition for us for at least 3-4 years. This is not true for whizbang games because every 6-12 months some new hardware/software technology comes out that outdates previous versions. Not so for wargames, which CMBO proves. So a combo of very difficult engineering tasks and a near suicidal marketing startegy rules this out completely.

What the new engine WILL be is far more flexible for us. That means we can perhaps do a new game in less than a year with perhaps even more improvements when compared to CMBO->CMBB. It will also allow us the flexibility to move the game engine to other time periods or game types if we should decide to. Currently CM is hardwired for certain types of WWII ETO combat only and can not be easily adapted to anything else (it took 2 years to model a different front!).

How we are going to utilize this new engine? As I said above, we are not quite sure yet. But when we are, you guys will be the first to know

Steve

[IronChef4]

I feel all warm and fuzzy now.

[PAEZ]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Hi guys,

How we are going to utilize this new engine? As I said above, we are not quite sure yet. But when we are, you guys will be the first to know

Steve

Please God let it be Nam, let it be Nam please God ...............let it be Nam

[ September 15, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: PAEZ ]

[aka_tom_w]

in another thread I posted this about the chance to update CMBO to be like CMBB:

(still relevant here)

If I thought they could "whip off" a CMBO upgrade to the level of CMBB for the ETO in the time frame

of CMBO, I would be happy to pay the full $45.00 U.S. for the new game.

They say they can't and they won't so lets move on to CMII and hope it covers some other interesting

time and theatre of WWII.

I think CMII should use all the info and data from all the models and units and time frames of BOTH

CMBO and CMBB and put it ALL into a NEW BIG robust KILLER game engine (the CMII rewrite) to

be released sometime in late 2004 or 2005

but that's just me DREAMING!

-tom w

[Cull]

from Steve:

.....This has all been said before, but obviously it needs to be said again

Response appreciated, but no, it doesn't. You guys have been clear on the Pacific thing, and I don't think anyone means to badger about it, or expects explanation. It's just a dream. I definitely wouldn't want you all to do anything you're not into and passionate about....I think we've all seen plenty of examples of how those projects turn out.

If BTS never did another thing, I'd be disappointed of course, but still happy. Sheesh, I already feel like I've won the wargaming lottery not once, but twice!

How 'bout a hug?

Now ship that damn game, you bunch of gold- brickers!

[Battlefront.com]

Hi Jack,

You guys have been clear on the Pacific thing, and I don't think anyone means to badger about it, or expects explanation.

Sorry for sounding a bit snippy, I didn't mean to. It just looked like some people were thinking that all options are open for the new engine (either the first or later games based on it). I just wanted to make sure we consistantly rain on the same parade in order to ensure no false hopes

And no... Nam won't be coming any time soon

Steve

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

the Pacific Theater is not in the cards. As has been mentioned by a few posters here, it is not going to happen. The main reasons are that CM is what it is because Charles and I (and to a large extent others as well) have a lot of personal knowledge and interest in the ETO. We do not have either the knowledge nor the interest to do the Pacific Theater.

Your best work comes from what you feel most motivated to do, of course, but I can't help thinking a Far East game - Burma to the Pacific - would make a wonderful contrast for the series, rather than going straight back to the ETO, though I'm looking forward to North Africa.

[SuperSulo]

BFC, in the new engine, do you plan to add a "campaign engine"? If not, PLEASE reconsider.