Scipio Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I don't like the changes in camera movement - once the camera rotates, once it moves left/right. IMO the CMBO way is better, cause I don't need to check if my mousepointer is in the upper or lower part of the screen - especially on snow maps it is a bit difficult sometimes - white pointer on white ground, you know... [ September 22, 2002, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Nope, but the discussion's been had about a hundred times already. Seems most people get used to it. One of those "it's different, so it sucks" things for awhile. I haven't played the demo or game yet, and I'm sure I'll be annoyed with the new camera for awhile. But I bet I'll get over it. I just want the game so I can hurry and find little niggling complaints to moan about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Get used to it; not going to change. Regards, MAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 We're here, we're Heer, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrold Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 LOL I found the new system to be pretty intuitive after a very short time and I quite like it the way it is. I have not been able to try it with the snow, but I think it shouldn't be too much trouble. BDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Not to burst your bubble, but I kind of liked it. I would always fumble around on the keyboard and press the wrong key when trying to get it to slide anyways. And as Michael pointed out above, it aint going to change Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 i must admit i was annoyed for a bit too. wanted to turn the angle and it would scroll instead. but i got used to it. in fact now when i play cmbo(yes, still playing. don't have the full game yet. hopefully by weds! bfc, you DID ship my copy on friday, right??), i get annoyed having to hold down the shift key to scroll. anyway, it just takes some getting used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I wasn't a great fan of it either. But Medieval : Total War uses the same system. Thanks to playing that and CM together I've gotten used to both. Although I do not like the ridiculing of other people's plight that seems to have become all the rage on this forum I would like to point out that MTW is bugridden to the point of being unplayable (under XP at least). And that reminded me for one that the quality and support levels achieved by BTS are simply unequalled. You see : it's quite possible to be supportive and appreciative without being sycophantic :cool: . [ September 22, 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Sgt_Kelly ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Army Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I like the new camera set up. Much improved IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 Originally posted by zukkov: i must admit i was annoyed for a bit too. wanted to turn the angle and it would scroll instead. but i got used to it. in fact now when i play cmbo(yes, still playing. don't have the full game yet. hopefully by weds! bfc, you DID ship my copy on friday, right??), i get annoyed having to hold down the shift key to scroll. anyway, it just takes some getting used to...Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I'm with you Scipio, In a word, cripes! I've tried many times to like it and get used to it with the demo, but it still annoys me. I get real good at it, but once in awhile, cripes!!! I didn't think the old way was "broken" myself. Its just one of those things I guess we are just going to have to get used to. What appears to be an interface improvement in one person's eye is a detriment in another's. If it could have just been made an option in an .ini file or something. Oh well, too much tremendously good stuff with CMBB to let this taint my appreciation of it. But... cripes!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted September 22, 2002 Share Posted September 22, 2002 I wrote up a pretty thorough analysis (from an interface design point of view) of the change in another thread. The rough summation of it is that the new interface is less intuitive, more complex, less powerful, and more prone to error than the old interface. I've yet to hear any arguments or explanations for it being better interface design except: 1. Other games by other companies use it. This is a somewhat valid argument as consistency is a valid principle of interface design, but I would counter-argue that consistency within a company's product line, i.e. with CMBO outweighs the concerns of consistency with other companies products. 2. I do not want to use the shift key. This I think is a bogus argument *from a design perspective* (it may, in fact, be true, but that does not mean it should influence the interface design). My counter argument would be that the reduction of the featureset of the interface - the loss of the rotate-while-translating-back command - is not worth the (perceived) increase in simplicity of removing the necessity of the shift key. The fact that the shift key is still part of the interface here renders this argument somewhat invalid for me. You still can't slide-while-translating-front without using the shift key. So, while I have taken the board's advice and tried to get used to the new camera movement system, I haven't. I still expect it to behave like the camera system from CMBO, perhaps because I was so happy with that. I would be very happy if a hotkey would be added to switch betweent the two movement systems, but, of course, I have some sense of perspective. I am eagerly awaiting CMBB and this won't kill the deal for me. I was loath to see the inclusion of the combo-box in OS X. The abandonment of Creator/Type codes for filename extensions makes me cringe. Bad interface tends to proliferate, and there's nothing to be done but pointing it out and hoping it can be changed. I hope the postman arrives with a present tomorrow! - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 yes. You are. the old system is clumsy in comparison. I really don't get why people have problems with it. About it being not intuitive: give it some time. I'm playing this game for several months now. It will become second nature very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 from Lyndan: yes. You are.No. He's not. from Lyndan: the old system is clumsy in comparison.The new system is clumsy in comparison. from Lyndan: I really don't get why people have problems with it.I really don't get why people don't have problems with it. from Lyndan: About it being not intuitive: give it some time. I'm playing this game for several months now. It will become second nature very soon.Give it some time. Like two months? That is not very soon. I've given it two weeks and I've gotten pretty good at it. But once in awhile, I get miffed, annoyed, perturbed, misoriented when the view goes horizontally racing when I wanted to rotate. I'm certainly hoping it becomes second nature. And it definately isn't the type of thing to sour the wonderful experience of CMBB. I just found the new requirement of noting my mouse position not to my taste. But just like spinach, I learned to like it after awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 I agree, it would be really nice if we could choose between the 'old' and the 'new' way. Both sides have there reasons. Michael Dorosh, I'm a person who does not simply follow the way of people who say 'BTS has spoken, so it must me be the best possible solution'. As an example, nearly each other game allows basic game setting like the in-game screen resolution. CM is the only 3D game that does not allows this AFAIK. BTS is good, but they are not free of errors. [ September 22, 2002, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 the new system works. the game as a whole rocks. Ther is no option for using "the old" system. Sooo.......you can either play the game with the new system or not play the game. I'm sorry you don't like the new system - I don't have any problems with it (well not QUITE true - I do find myself occasionally panning when I want to be scanning and vice versa, but it doen't take long to correct!!) and on the whole I prefer being able to do both movement modes using just the mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Scipio, I agree with you. I have been playing the demo and keep hoping to get used to this new system, but just find that it removes me from being immersed in the game when I have to start checking on the pointer location. Now I find myself thinking about navigating around the map instead of thinking about the battle. An option to use the CMBO system would be greatly appreciated. MikeF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I did not like it at first but became accustom to it. No worries now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimguy Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I just want the scroll wheel to change camera zoom levels. Didn't do it in the demo. Is that a possibility? If not, anyone know a way to map my mouse wheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by Scipio: I'm a person who does not simply follow the way of people who say 'BTS has spoken, so it must me be the best possible solution'. As an example, nearly each other game allows basic game setting like the in-game screen resolution. CM is the only 3D game that does not allows this AFAIK. BTS is good, but they are not free of errors.Old system - only one functionality by moving mouse cursor to screen side. New system - more than one functionality possible. How can there possibly be an error? :confused: The only other difference between the old and the new is that you have to move the mouse beyond the 1/3 of the lower part of the screen to achieve what you used to. Is it really that big a deal? You can convince yourself you are some kind of crusader, but from where I stand, anyone whining about this is just dumb. And bear in mind I objected to this at first too (do a search), but quickly realized that it would take a bit of time to get used to the new system, but nothing had really been lost. So I regretted having said anything. So will you, once you get used to the new way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Still no arguments as to why the new system is better, except the "I don't like the keyboard" argument, which I think is all well and good, but a very weak argument. I use the keyboard all the time to issue all of my orders, because it is 9.357 million times faster than opening the command menu, so that argument doesn't really apply. I'm sure I will eventually get used to it, but that does not, most emphatically not, make it necessarily better. - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Michael, If you can tell me how to, with the new interface, simultaneously move the camera backwards and rotate right or left, I will be quite quite happy with it. I do this all the time in CMBO and would really like to be able to in CMBB. I can't contribute much to the game from a historical grog standpoint, because I am still learning about the history of it all (an much from this board), but one thing I know pretty well is human interface design. More functionality is not always a good thing in an interface. You could code it so that moving the mouse to the side just above the bit where it scrolls does the same thing as the plus and minus keys. This would be more functionality, but I would wager that it would be really annoying in about ten minutes. More functionality is part of a complex balance with consistency, and simplicity. The new interface is less functional, less consistent, but (in some ways) more simple - not requiring the use of the shift key. I think I can present a pretty good argument, as is the requirement of BTS and this forum, that at least the option of using the old system should be made available. I'd be most interested to hear either why the change was made, or, failing that, why *from and interface design standpoint* the new system is *better*. And I know I'll get used to it. - Bill [ September 22, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: billcarey ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I like the new camera system better and I am a heavy keyboard user. I am not sure that the maginfications values for view levels 1-5 are well-tuned, I run into quite some too-big, now it's too-small "problems". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by billcarey: If you can tell me how to, with the new interface, simultaneously move the camera backwards and rotate right or left, I will be quite quite happy with it.You press the down arrow key on your keyboard and rotate the screen left or right with your mouse. I think it's the same as CMBO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Army Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by Mike: the new system works. the game as a whole rocks. Ther is no option for using "the old" system. Sooo.......you can either play the game with the new system or not play the game. I'm sorry you don't like the new system - I don't have any problems with it (well not QUITE true - I do find myself occasionally panning when I want to be scanning and vice versa, but it doen't take long to correct!!) and on the whole I prefer being able to do both movement modes using just the mouse.I agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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