Charlie901 Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Yes this tank did have them at the end of WWII. Just wondering if this tanks sights are taken into account during night combat and if not can this be addressed in patch? Imagine hunting Stalins in total darkness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Charlie901: Yes this tank did have them at the end of WWII. Just wondering if this tanks sights are taken into account during night combat and if not can this be addressed in patch? Imagine hunting Stalins in total darkness! Do you have any sources for that? I've never heard of Jagdtigers with infra-red sights before. Some Panthers? Yes. I think I even heard of some Jagdpanthers ith IR sights but never Jagdtigers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 IR equipment in WWII was so very very rare they didn't bother with coding for it. Besides, I believe (though I'm not sure) LOS with first-generation IR devices wasn't very much more than night LOS in the game anyway. If they jump into MODERN warfare that'll definitely be something they'll have to check into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 The IR night vision was ACTIVE infra-red wasn't it? (they shined a blacklight searchlight and read the reflected light back from it). What do you think the reach is of that thing? I'm thinking 150 meters at most, kind of pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 According to Achtung Panzer! up to 600m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 I thought 600-800m was LOS for early 1970s Soviet and NATO active IR equipment. Well, maybe Russian T54 IR devices matched the original WWII German performance. My Jentz is at home so I'm just guessing now. [ December 20, 2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie901 Posted December 20, 2002 Author Share Posted December 20, 2002 Qutoe from the book: Barbarossa The Russian German Conflict 1941-45 by Alan Clark. "Fresh material and drafts of infantry continued to flow up to the front, embracing the whole spectrum of military quality, from the brand-new Jagdtiger with 128-mm. guns and infrared sights (a tank markedly superior to anything which NATO disposed of for the first eighteen years of its existance).......". My guess is that the infrared sights had to be better than normal eyesight at night (wasn't it also limitly used on the German Assault rifle)otherwise why would it have been used at all! Maybe it could fit in-game somewhere in the middle. It would definatley add some fun tactics for night battles after 01/'45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Charlie901: Qutoe from the book: Barbarossa The Russian German Conflict 1941-45 by Alan Clark. "Fresh material and drafts of infantry continued to flow up to the front, embracing the whole spectrum of military quality, from the brand-new Jagdtiger with 128-mm. guns and infrared sights (a tank markedly superior to anything which NATO disposed of for the first eighteen years of its existance)......." My guess is that the infrared sights had to be better than normal eyesight at night (wasn't it also limitly used on the German Assault rifle)otherwise why would it have been used at all! Maybe it could fit in-game somewhere in the middle. It would definatley add some fun tactics for night battles after 01/'45.Barbarossa, decent book, but old, and deals with stratigic (and sometimes operational) level. Take specific details about equipment and tactical level stuff with a grain of salt. Edited to note that my version says "...spectrum of military quality, from the brand-new Jagdtiger with 122-mm. guns and infrared sights (a tank markedly superior to anything which NATO disposed of for the first eighteen years of its existance)..." Rather striking proof that this is the wrong text to prove equipment details. Either that, or the Jagdtiger has a 122mm gun. Fix or do somfink BFC!!! [ December 20, 2002, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Marlow ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimguy Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Or perhaps a typo on the part of the poster? Clark knew his stuff, IMHO, and Barbarossa just wasn't meant to be a treatise on military weaponry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 weren't hunting tigers pretty much used exclusively on the western front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Jagdtiger = rare IR sighting equip in WW2 = extremely rare Jagtiger+IR = Give Me A Break People! Is BFC expected to model every friggin' pseodogrog wet dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 I've never seen proof or even read anything that would support this claim. As far as I know, and most agree, it was only a handful of Panther A,D who got the IR gear, and even then it's actual usage is even less than that. Only a couple of documented battles where it was used. Now there IS a credible rumour of some Hetzers modified with IR gear in the lst weeks of the war, but I have yet to see proof of that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbertles Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 "German Tanks of World War II" by Stephen Hart and Russell Hart has quite a bit of material on the Panther "Sparrowhawk" variant. Range was 600m, due to the small size of the IR searchlight the tank carried. In '44 they began mounting 23.6in IR searchlights on halftracks for increased detection range - up to 2500m (!!!). To go along with the Panthers and hts, there was a halftrack-mounted special pzgrendier squad - supposed to be armed with assault rifles with Vampir night-sights (although the sights were never fitted, the infantry teams did exist). These 3-vehicle teams were collectively called Sperber - sparrowhawk. Deployment was extremely rare, sometimes w/o the IR vision devices, and the only known actual combat took place in the West. BTW, there was an improved Panther sight called Solution-B, which also provided night vision to the driver. So, imagine this scene in an early sparrowhawk panther: Commander: "Drive forward 60 meters and turn around that building!" Driver: "Building? What building?" CRASH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 FYI. The Germen army ordnance department initially ordered 150 JagdTigers in early 43. The first vehicle was finished in july 44. The german firm Nibelungenwerke was only able to finish 40-70 vehicles before Germany surrendered. Its estimated that fewer than half actually saw combat. The JagdTiger was sometimes mounted with the 88mm gun when the standard 128mm gun was not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 The soviets captured german IR technology and their Gen I was essentialy the same as the german stuff. They used it only as a driver's night vision device until they got their own Gen II online almost a decade later, so I doubt it is the 0berweapon it seems to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 What the heck did the IR sights use as a display? Punchcards?? Did they even have CRTs back then? Vacuum tubes? How the heck does this thing work without all of that high-falootin technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Axe_ Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by Lumbergh: How the heck does this thing work without all of that high-falootin technology?That information is, I'm afraid, classified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by Lumbergh: What the heck did the IR sights use as a display? Punchcards?? Did they even have CRTs back then? Vacuum tubes? How the heck does this thing work without all of that high-falootin technology?IIRC, TV was invented and in use by the late 1930's. CRT's were used in a variety of radar sets and electronic indicators as well. They were clunky and chunky, but they did work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgivney Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 a tank markedly superior to anything which NATO disposed of for the first eighteen years of its existanceRight. A overweight, underpowered barely-mobile pillbox. I'll take a Super-Sherman any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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