Aeroplanes

[elalamein]

Does anyone out there ever use aeroplanes as I have not seen any posts for them, I have bought them on battles but find that they don't seem to do a job. Is there anyway of improving my use of them :confused:

[Vergeltungswaffe]

No, air strikes are a very hit and miss propostion. They are rarely worth the points. Sometimes, they don't show up at all. Sometimes, they attack your units. Sometimes, they attack the enemy. And sometimes, they attack the enemy and actually cause him damage.

This is a pretty fair representation of tactical airpower in WWII. Within the scale and scope of a game like CM, airstrikes on enemy units in direct contact with friendly forces were very rare.

So, no, there is nothing you can do better. You just need to decide if you would like to spend the points on them, or if you would rather have some more artillery, or something truly useful.

Good Luck!

[LC-]

I personally never buy airstrikes for the same reasons Vergeltungswaffe said. Its too unpredictable and I would much rather use the points on spotters for some good arty. I have never had any luck with airstrikes personally so that might be the reason I dont waste my time with it now.

[Warmaker]

I never buy airstrikes as the Allies due to the aforementioned "randomness." Combat can be chaotic enough as it is, and I personally don't relish the thought of some hotshot pilot who wants to go back after his sorty claiming he destroyed 3 "Tiger Tanks" Unfortunately, he probably destroyed 3 of your Sherman 76s/Firefly VCs.

For the majority of the time I play as the Germans, and the choice is simple: Don't pick any! Sure it's there for selection, but the poor grunts didn't expect any support from the flyboys. Afterall, the Luftwaffe by '44 had a wonderful technology that rendered their aircraft invisible!

[Viceroy]

I bought airplanes a few times but it never seemed worth the cost.

[rleete]

Planes are an expensive gamble, but when they work, they can be devastating. It can often change the entire battle.

[elalamein]

Thanks for the above.

I was just playing a game and had occupied a group of houses along with some captured German soldiers. Not wanting to be gamey and just leave the POW's on their own I left some troops to guard them. Then along game my plane on the first turn it appeared and bombed the houses. This killed all the POW's, my troops and destroyed some of the houses :eek:

I guess that the pilot must have seen the POW's in the open and thought that the hamlet was enemy occupied and did his duty.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elalamein:

Thanks for the above.

I was just playing a game and had occupied a group of houses along with some captured German soldiers. Not wanting to be gamey and just leave the POW's on their own I left some troops to guard them. Then along game my plane on the first turn it appeared and bombed the houses. This killed all the POW's, my troops and destroyed some of the houses :eek:

I guess that the pilot must have seen the POW's in the open and thought that the hamlet was enemy occupied and did his duty.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect example.

[Mr. Johnson--]

hehehe thats funny. Awhile back I play a German attack QB. I had the germans, did not buy any flak, but I did buy 6 HTs and placed 2 platoons in them. I was saving them for a fast assault towards the end of the fight to overwhelm the enemy. But that bastard bought a Fighter-bomber which went about annhalating my entire reserve that was going to win the battle for me. They sometimes work great.

[Monty's Double]

I think Fighter Bombers are only really worth considering in scenarios. For QBs they tend to do nothing, or turn the game completely, neither result making for an interesting or challenging game.

[Stacheldraht]

I just played a large-scale QB where the Canadians had a fighter-bomber that nailed one of my Hetzers on the first turn and later immobilized, in a very inconvenient place, my one AA asset, a Wirbelwind (meant for troops in this case, actually). Happily, my Wirbelwind seemed to chase off the plane, as it never returned after turn three or so.

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ]

[Hedgehog]

I had an airstrike used against me in a PBEM that really destroyed any chance of me defending my positions. Must have been a typhoon. It rocketed me for 2 turns and then strafed my platoons for 4 more. It took out my main AT and sent everyone running around, only to get shot up by other units. When they do work they can really tip the balance.

[Warmaker]

lol! How about this... for once I didn't pick any armor, just an all infantry Heer & Waff.SS force facing a armor heavy US attack. I realized my grunts were going to be in fight for their lives but early on when his tanks were advancing in the attack big explosions and the sound of rockets started going off and killing several tanks. I wondered, WTF? I didn't have my 105mm spotter target anything yet and I definitely didn't have CAS. Nice to know that I got help from trigger happy Allied aircrews

"Hey Sam, glad to see you made it back too!"

"Thanks Mike... Did you see me take take out those two Tigers? Impressive eh?"

"I dunno Sam... All the smoke and AAA made things hard to identify. I'll confirm your deuce Tiger kills if you confirm my 4 Mk.IV kills!"

...lol! Thanks for the help! :cool: The cheapest support I've ever had! Free!

[MOS was 71331]

Fighter-bombers are a high variance weapon. The average damage they should infict on your opponent's forces may be about the same as the average damage from an artillery FO with a similar point cost, but the variability of an FB's effect will be much greater.

I'd only buy an FB if I were in a game with a much better opponent. If the FB performs well, I just might win. If the FB performs poorly, I'll just lose by a bigger margin.

[elalamein]

Further to my previous post.

This hero pilot! Started to strafe the so called German lines that my infantry had just occupied taking out my AT teams.

Now I am well on the run with a Tiger snapping at my heals.

Don't think I'll bother with CAS anymore.

[Trooper]

Actually, I like the zoomies. I think they're great for dealing with the odd German tank destoyer, or units hidden in staging areas that I don't know about.

For the friendly fire issue, I try to make sure that my armor isn't moving much, or is under tree cover. I've not had my own tanks hit by my own aircraft yet.

I only ever take them in bigger games though. I hold priority for artillery or mortars, and only after I have a few tubes in support do I then take a look at the fighters.

NTM

[Michlos]

I have used aeroplanes before and must say that they might not be the most effective way of beating your opponen but it does make the game more interesting.

Buying 2-3 planes for a 40+ round fight will often prove interesting. It can either help you alot or you can get serisously hurt.

Once in a large QB my fighters managed to destroy atleast 4 panthers and maybe some infantry too. This was before his AA guns woke up and started popping my guys out of the sky :eek:

Screen shots of aeroplane strafing AFVs

[ 07-08-2001: Message edited by: Michlos ]

Edited due to reorganization of site.

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Michlos ]

[Erwin]

I once asked here what is the % of CAS turning up, but as yet nobody knew. I know one oppo who loves CAS claim that he gets his CAS about 80% of the time for what that's worth...

[Pzman]

Must we forget that Germany lost about 65% of all tanks on the Western front to allied Fighter bombers.

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[Guest PondScum]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Must we forget that Germany lost about 65% of all tanks on the Western front to allied Fighter bombers.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds much higher than I was expecting. Got a reference?

[Pzman]

If was on a Show about German tanks. So I can't quote it.

[Trooper]

The kill claims by Allied aircraft in WWII has been rather exhaustively analyzed over at Tanknet.org. The general meeting of minds was that allied air power actually tended to knock out very few German AFVs directly.

More indirectly, however, they did a real number on the tanks' support infrastructure. Without fuel, ammo and spare parts, the German AFVs would be as good as killed anyway.

NTM

[Vergeltungswaffe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Must we forget that Germany lost about 65% of all tanks on the Western front to allied Fighter bombers.

[ 07-16-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regardless of the accuracy of the 65% figure, the vast majority of all afv's destroyed or damaged by allied airpower were not in direct contact with ground forces, but were attacked in transit behind the lines.

[Ex Bellator]

I like aircraft in this game, they spice up scenarios and if you have regular TCP opponents like me then I would get them occasionally to keep them guessing next time.

Granted (with spectacular exceptions) most of the time they are ineffective, but they certainly are fun.

On some of the stats for KO AFV's from aircraft I've seen on this thread, I recall reading a report comissioned by the British Army for the period from D-Day to the Rhine, where only a very few AFV's could positivley be identified as being killed by aircraft.

One statistic I can remember was that Typhoons hit single AFV targets 4% of the time, and that was one of the better ground attack platforms.

[Soddball]

Does it seem reasonable that fighter-bombers should be included on the side of the allies for most scenarios?

Judging by the general air superiority by June 1944, I would have said this was a reasonable assumption. I know that there were localised cases where Axis air power was superior, or where there was no air power, but generally does the assembled company believe that historical scenarios should include air power of some sort?