Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 7, 2002 Author Share Posted July 7, 2002 Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: I suspect this is the thread you are looking for.Thankyou Vanir. That thread was just what I was after. Much appreciated. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: What kind of bull**** is this? We are talking about cards for Combat Mission here. What do you think when the first game with the new engine will be out? Tacops 4 will probably not have problems with currently cheap cards either. How much money do you want to spend right now, needlessly, for "future games"? First off, nobody buys a video card just for Combat Mission. If he were, then a TNT2 card is all he would need. What happens when this guy buys future games like CM 3, GI Combat, and the host of other 3D WWII games that are coming out in the next year? His crappy TNT2 or Geforce 2 wont cut it. He will have wasted money, now he's got to go and buy another card. Plan ahead, you never know what games you'll want within a year's time. Secondly Redwolf, I provided links that prove that the GeForce 3 is not a re-labled GeForce 2. If you refuse to believe it then that's you're problem but don't go giving bad advice to a fellow CM player. GeForce 3DMark 2001 Test Results for the Elsa line of cards(all done with Quincunx Anti-Aliasing and no overclocking): Geforce 3 Ti 500 - 5450 Geforce 3 - 4899 Geforce 3 Ti 200 - 4394 Geforce 2 Ti - 2882 The interesting thing is that the bottom of the line GeForce 3 (ti 200) has a much slower clock speed than the GeForce 2 yet still outperforms the GeForce 2 by 52%. How could the Geforce 3 possibly be a re-labeled Geforce 2??? Again, for those interested, here is the site with these bench mark tests. Redwolf, don't tell me I'm spewing bull**** when I know I've got my facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted July 7, 2002 Share Posted July 7, 2002 I suspect redwolf has his cards confused: the "re-labeled GF2" that he's thinking of is the GF4 MX, not the GF3. Me, I just upgraded to a 64MB GF3 Ti200. As Jack Arilliac said, it's dirt cheap right now: not the performance leader, but definitely at the sweet spot of the price/performance curve. I'll see how it runs in CMBB, and then decide whether the next upgrade will be a 128MB GF4 Ti series, or a nice flat panel display (via the DVI connector on my GF3) [ July 07, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: PondScum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I have a question. What does "fast Ram" mean? Is that the same thing as just Ram? Like I have 192 Ram in my computer but only 32 Ram in my Diamod Viper 770 card. Is fast Ram what's in the video card? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by Pak40: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by redwolf: The Geforce 3 is a re-labeled Geforce 2 re-engineered for cheaper manufracturing. As of now in the Best Buy near me, there is no Geforce 3 offering which has a better price/performance ratio than a Geforce 2 model, because the 2's prices have been dropped although they were more expensive to produce.Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. All reviews/comparisons of Geforce 2 and 3 cards have the Geforce 3 well out-performing the Geforce 2 cards. Check out the results of these Elsa cards: Elsa Geforce Comparison Also, besides just plain better performance, the Geforce 3 cards have the nFiniteFX technology which allows allows programers to create an infinite number of custom effects. In other words, some really cool 3D ****. Read here for more on the nFiniteFX Engine. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farslayer Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: What kind of bull**** is this? We are talking about cards for Combat Mission here. What do you think when the first game with the new engine will be out? Tacops 4 will probably not have problems with currently cheap cards either. How much money do you want to spend right now, needlessly, for "future games"? If you want a card for Quake-style games, then fine, you need it, but your posts imply that every Combat Mission gamer needs the same hardware as a strategic planning Quaker right now. This is bull****. Combat Mission player need lots of fast video RAM, at least when they are into mods, which probably most are except some hardcore gamers who prefer wire models and lined terrain. But even if you are not into mods, in big battles you have so many textures on the board, and no filtering for visibility like FPS engines do, that you still want the VRAM. Proposing to buy the fastest card now available in the context of good Combat Mission gaming is like selling viagra in kindergarten. P.S. yes the ATI stuff does not do fog, and yes they used to have the crappiest imaginable driver support. But find the drivers I got with the Radeon to be just fine. Sometimes people and companies change. Since they gave me the large VRAM card cheap and NVidia didn't I took the risk, and I won.If your intent is really to ask opinion of video performance concerning only ONE game and solely its requirements, then perhaps some others statements have been overdone. I don't do Quake, or Counterstrike, or that type of game. But others I play, in addition to CM, do have video requirements, and I looked at several before going with the nVidia GeForce 3 Ti 200 a while ago because of the price/capability match, much like choosing an Athlon 1800+, which also now sits at the price/performance sweet spot. Were I only playing CM, I could have left my Creative Labs Graphics Blaster with the TNT chip in the machine... But balance is needed for best performance of all the components. No sense having a suck-a$$ video card with a kick-a$$ CPU, nor vice-versa. Since the upgrade it's all been CM:BO, IL-2, or NWN, and they all look and run sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimorocca Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hi friend, I cannot reveal anything about the game, but I'm actually testing CMBB with my Pentium III 1 gigahz, with a Geforcepro 2 64 mega, with all the possible options on to slow it at maximum, and I got from 17 to 21 FPS at level one, very smooth for the eye. Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Hm, I should probably keep my mouth shut, but what the hell. I had it wrong, the Geforce 2 is the "ripoff" as in nothing really new over the Geforce 1. The 3 is fine. My mind suffers from not buying enough stuff lately. The 4-MX is really mislabeled for most games, as noted. Still, the latest and greatest NVidia cards may not be the most cost-effective solution if your primary concern is modded CM. [ July 08, 2002, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by lcm1947: I have a question. What does "fast Ram" mean? Is that the same thing as just Ram? Like I have 192 Ram in my computer but only 32 Ram in my Diamod Viper 770 card. Is fast Ram what's in the video card? :confused: Correct. The ram in video cards is generally faster than system ram. AFAIK "fast RAM" is a marketing term for vram (video ram), not an official designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: The 4-MX is really mislabeled for most games, as noted. Still, the latest and greatest NVidia cards may not be the most cost-effective solution if your primary concern is modded CM.Yes, the Geforce 4 MX line is really aimed at the 2D mainstream or business market. These are slower cards with limited 3D performance. IIRC, their speed is somewhat comparable to a Geforce 2, possibly slower. Gamers should not be fooled by the GeForce 4 logo on the MX cards. Check this out: Comp U Plus has a great deal on the card that I bought, the PNY Verto GeForce3 Ti 200 AGP - Your Cost ONLY $69 After $30 Rebate! Expires 7/30/02. 99.00. I have been very impressed with this card. It has been rock solid and smooth at 1024x768. I'm running NWN with high graphics detail and anti-aliasing, and I get very smooth graphics. I have yet to test a higher resolution in NWN, but DOD was very smooth at 1280x1024. I think this is the best deal for any video card out there. It is extremely affordable yet Powerful card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by dumrox: Here are some scores from Madonion.com's 3DMark201 benchmarking tool. All these tests are from Duron 950 machines. The "Score" column is compared to my system using a GF2 GTS-V, a slightly slower member of the GF2 GTS family. You can download the utility from madonion.com 3DMark Score Chipset 6401 219% NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600 6128 210% NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400 5976 204% NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 5409 185% ATI Radeon 8500 5187 177% NVIDIA GeForce3 5131 175% NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200 4969 170% NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 500 3706 127% NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 460 3654 125% NVIDIA GeForce2 Ultra 3547 121% NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 3272 112% ATI Radeon 7500 3208 110% NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/Pro/Ti 3136 107% NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 420 2924 100% NVIDIA GeForce2 GTS/Pro/Ti 2691 92% ATI RADEON DDR 2656 91% NVIDIA Quadro2/Pro 2634 90% NVIDIA GeForce DDR 2550 87% NVIDIA GeForce2 MX/MX 400 2448 84% ATI RADEON SDR 2266 77% NVIDIA GeForce SDR 1649 56% 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 1624 56% STMicro KYRO II 1494 51% STMicro KYRO 1467 50% NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200 1422 49% ATI RADEON VE 1350 46% NVIDIA RIVA TNT2/Pro 1273 44% NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Ultra 1150 39% 3dfx Voodoo4 4500 1017 35% Matrox G400 956 33% ATI RAGE 128 PRO 884 30% NVIDIA TNT2 m64 666 23% ATI RAGE 128 364 12% S3 ProSavage 286 10% Generic VGAMy card sucks. But the rest of my system does, too, so there's no use upgrading any single component. As my Xmas gift to myself I'll get a shiny-spanking-new system from a reputable builder. DjB [ July 08, 2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Doug Beman ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 Originally posted by lcm1947: I have a question. What does "fast Ram" mean? Is that the same thing as just Ram? Like I have 192 Ram in my computer but only 32 Ram in my Diamod Viper 770 card. Is fast Ram what's in the video card? :confused: Video cards come either with DDRAM (as most desctop PCs do), or with SDRAM, which is much faster. I estimate that the faster RAM is useful for CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaylord Focker Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 RedWolf, i don't mean to come off as scholary, but SD Ram (single data rate) is alot slower then the DDR Ram (double data rate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 Thanks Redwolf and Vanir Ausf B for your responses I appreicate you taking the time to help me. That's what I thought just wasn't sure and I am trying to keep up with this topic as I too am thinking about upgrading my video card from my present Diamond Viper 770 TNT2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted July 9, 2002 Share Posted July 9, 2002 GF3 and GF2 are not one in the same. GF3 core has a pixel and vertex shader. GF2 has a DX8 compliant T&L engine. The pixel shaders of the GF3 are customizable where as the T&L engine of the GF2 is very limited in what it can do. For the money the GF3 TI200 for about what 75 bucks now is a great upgrade card for cheap. I have a GF3 Ti200 and it runs every game I own crystal smooth. The GF4MX variants differ. I believe the highest version of the GF4MX has descent memory bandwidth and can beat a GF3 Ti200 in most of todays games that dont take advantage of the Pixel and Vertex shaders of the GF3. Any of the new games like Doom 3 will kill the GF4 MX cards. The GF4 MX card is more GF2 than anything. The T&L engine is really no different than the GF2s. It has better memory management because it uses the Crossbar technology of the GF4 but I would not buy one. For the money the GF4 Ti4200 is a nice buy. Stay away from ATi. Driver issues, and the 8500 barely beats the GF3 Ti200 in most games. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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