Croda Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Found this on ebay. It's for sale if you want it (small Star Wars joke for those who get it). Personally, I just saved the pic to HD. Often times people want to know where to get aerial pics, well this ought to help with some Bulge scenario design. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1078886833 Click on the picture for a large version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I didn't see no tanks or nuthin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Croda, I am thinking you are a born-agan Grog. Outstanding photo, I hope some scenario designer will make good use of it. So where is CloseCombat's Bastogne map on there? Or did they pull that one out of their you know what.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 What in the hell are those large blocky/angular/dark sections, casting the LONG shadows. Are those WOODS/FOREST? Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Methinks those are the shell craters he refers to. Pretty insane if that's so. Born-again grog, eh? Nah, I'm just a wannabe grog who doesn't know anything. Sound like anyone we used to know? (I'm actually doing research on the 10th Armored Division. With any luck I'll have something very nice to post within a week or so regarding the 10th AD.) [Edited because 'born-again gorg' sounds stupid and needed to be fixed. Damend keyboard demons.] [ March 01, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Croda ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 WOW! Way cool! I wish I could look at the full-size photo with a magnifying glass. Did y'all notice the date of the photo? It is 12/27/44!! (Look at the edge). As I recall, that was right around the day that the 101st was relieved by the 4th Armored Div. Gee, if I could only look at it through a magnifying glass--The things I might be able to see and identify..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Hm. Says it was recovered from the HQ of the 17th Airborne Division. I didn't think the 17th Airborne was in theater yet in '44. -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by Gpig: What in the hell are those large blocky/angular/dark sections, casting the LONG shadows. Are those WOODS/FOREST? GpigThat is what I am wondering as well. At first I thought they were buildings, but the scale is all wrong for that it seems. The edges and shadows look awfully angular and uniform to be trees, but I don't know what else they could be. I suppose the fact they are planted forests may account for some of that regularity and angular nature, but I wouldn't have thought to this extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by jgdpzr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gpig: What in the hell are those large blocky/angular/dark sections, casting the LONG shadows. Are those WOODS/FOREST? GpigThat is what I am wondering as well. At first I thought they were buildings, but the scale is all wrong for that it seems. The edges and shadows look awfully angular and uniform to be trees, but I don't know what else they could be. I suppose the fact they are planted forests may account for some of that regularity and angular nature, but I wouldn't have thought to this extent.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Those can't be craters. They're so angular I've got to believe they're man made. The scale seems way off though. Look how HUGE they are compared to the road running East-West at the bottom of the map. You can see the shell craters are little circles of black that cover the countryside [ March 01, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Captain Wacky ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 The shadows of those angular areas are all about the same length as the identifiable trees. And they are dark. They have to be trees, but very orderly ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Gawd, I dunno. Why are they so dense and black, espcially during the winter? It looks like someone took legos and dropped onto the pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbs Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 From Croda: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by jgdpzr: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Gpig: What in the hell are those large blocky/angular/dark sections, casting the LONG shadows. Are those WOODS/FOREST? Gpig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That is what I am wondering as well. At first I thought they were buildings, but the scale is all wrong for that it seems. The edges and shadows look awfully angular and uniform to be trees, but I don't know what else they could be. I suppose the fact they are planted forests may account for some of that regularity and angular nature, but I wouldn't have thought to this extent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again: Methinks those are the shell craters he refers to. Croda, His description of 'angular and uniform' makes me think he is referring to trees. The shell craters you mention do look like shadows, but they are rather diffuse and amorphous (sp?) across the open fields. TRIVIA NOTE: In the immediate aftermath of the 'Challenger' explosion in 1986, I read in a New Hampshire newspaper that the teacher who was killed--Christa McAuliffe, was the Granddaughter-in-Law of Gen. Anthony McAuliffe of Bastogne fame (her husband is Gen. McAuliffe's grandson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Those are stands of fir trees. Althought the Ardennes is a hilly, forested area, the area of Bastogne was relatively "clear". Thus, you see why the town is so important. By the way, that is most DEFinitely Marvie. I am currently desiging THREE scenarios, and one MAXI-sized scenario, on the several actions at Marvie. I anticipate these will be released by Boots and Tracks after playtesting is complete. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonah Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I would have to agree that the the black objects throwing shadows are patches of forest. It looks to me like the photo is an oblique photo taken out the lower side of the P-38. You can tell because the top of the photo looks to be further away than the bottom and you can get an impression of topography.....note the valley top right of the photo running down just to the right of the largest town. The forests that are on the ridge in the foreground are throwing the shadows......the ones in the background right side are in a valley and aren't throwing shadows. The sun must be very low on the horizon on the right side of the photo. As well, the wind appears to be from the top of the photo. I'm basing this assumption from the smear that appears just below and to the left of the largest town. The smear moves towards the bottom of the photo and looks a lot like smoke (this is based on my experience looking at aerial and satellite images of forest fires). Just some observations. Nice photo. I would love to see the other 699! I'm no grog but I seem to remember that the 17th Airborne was in Britain still......I thought the first time they were committed was in their drop across the Rhine later in the war. (just remembered that this fragment is based on reading Band of Brothers......take that for what it is worth given the 'Ambrose Factor' ) Jonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Originally posted by jgdpzr: That is what I am wondering as well. At first I thought they were buildings, but the scale is all wrong for that it seems. The edges and shadows look awfully angular and uniform to be trees, but I don't know what else they could be. I suppose the fact they are planted forests may account for some of that regularity and angular nature, but I wouldn't have thought to this extent.No, I'd say they are natural woods, the regular and angular edges the result of farmers claiming extra land for paddocks. btw, for those wishing to save the picture file (not that'd I'd do anything like that *ahem*) there's a little trick to saving graphics from 'download' protected sites. Simply go to the temporary internet cashe folder in your system folder, and grab the graphic file there. Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apex Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Unfortunately, access to this particular category or item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in your home country. Based on our discussions with concerned government agencies and eBay community members, we have taken these steps to reduce the chance of inappropriate items being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases this policy may prevent users from accessing items that do not violate the law. At this time, we are working on less restrictive alternatives. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay.Can anyone mirror the pic somewhere? apex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Originally posted by Jonah: I'm no grog but I seem to remember that the 17th Airborne was in Britain still......I thought the first time they were committed was in their drop across the Rhine later in the war. (just remembered that this fragment is based on reading Band of Brothers......take that for what it is worth given the 'Ambrose Factor' ) JonahNo, it struck me as odd too. I've read plenty on the subject of the Bulge, and do not remember the 17th being referred to in any tactical or strategic way. I've read plenty about the whole theater and never read anything referencing the 17th in action before Operation Varsity. Always something new to learn, though. Odd. -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted March 2, 2002 Author Share Posted March 2, 2002 hmmm...second thought...perhaps I was too jumpy. I suppose the big blocky things would have to be forests, either manmade, or man-groomed to have such straight edges. As for the small splotches...abandoned tanks anyone? [Edited because I took an ID10T Error] [ March 01, 2002, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Croda ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Ah - mea culpa. MacDonald's "A Time for Trumpets" has the following in the appendix OB: "17th Airborne Division ("Golden Talon") Maj. Gen. William M. Miley 507 and 513 Parachute Inf Regiments 193 and 194 Glider Inf Regiments 680 and 681 Glider FA Battalions 466 Parachute FA Battalion 139 Airborne Engineer Battalion 155 Airborne AAA AW Battalion The division entered the line for the first time in late December west of Bastogne." Sorry for confusing things. edit: there are only three pages where the 17th is mentioned - two statements about the division not arriving from England yet, and a final blurb that indicates they were attached to Third Army for the push to eliminate the Bulge. -dale [ March 01, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: dalem ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpazManOught Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 The blocks of dark stuff are woods?forest. The shadows you see look more like either motion blur or errors during the manufacturing of the photo. They must be because the altitude of the plane was 20,000 (meter's/feet?) and the size of the shadow would suggest a tree hight of 2,000 meter's/feet (each shadow accounts for what? 10% of the width of the photo. There is a strong possibility that I'm wrong but it looks like its blured to me [ March 01, 2002, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: SpazManOught ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 I think I've seen this auction before. There was a similar photo in an auction by the same folks of Assenois and some other Bulge area aerial pics. It may be worth a search every now and then for "bulge aerial pictures" or the like. As I recall I discovered them when looking for a book or something on Assenois after playing a scenario based there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 If this is a photograph designed to be used with a stereo-viewer, is it possible that some of the odd effects being witnessed are artificially created by the camera to give a better 3-D effect when used in the viewer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voidhawk Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Don't forget, what is actually being sold is NOT the photo itself, but a copy made on a colour (why colour?) Xerox copier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 2, 2002 Share Posted March 2, 2002 Originally posted by voidhawk: Don't forget, what is actually being sold is NOT the photo itself, but a copy made on a colour (why colour?) Xerox copier.Better paper and image quality than a "black and white" copier. I think "colour" really refers to a "laser" copier vice a standard copier. Many people use the terms "laser copier" and "colour copier" interchangeably, even if the subject at hand is in black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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