Silvio Manuel Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 A Sherman Jumbo (who has been terrorizing me) is about to pass on a diagonal between two buildings, and I will have LOS with a veteran 88mm AT gun (range is 400m) until it comes to the huge wooded ridge its heading towards. The problem is the AT gun's HQ unit doesn't have LOS to the ambush spot. What orders should I give so that the gun will fire only at the Jumbo, and not at the 2 Stuarts in its field of view (if I just unhide it)??? I've already "rotated" it so that it is looking at the path that the JUmbo will cross. Should i give it tons of "rotate" orders near the ambush point, to keep it busy (won't shoot other targets) while telling it to target the Sherman, even though its currently out of LOS? Thanks in advance for your hints. [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 Put an ambush marker in the middle of the first tile of open ground you expect the Jumbo to enter, or a little farther out. All guns can place their own ambush markers; they don't need an HQ to do it for them. Leave the gun on "hide". When a target moves close to a hidden unit's ambush marker, it will unhide to fire at that particular spot. It also shoots a little better because it is already aiming for the location, effectively. That is what ambush markers are for. There is no sense in trying to keep the gun "busy". If the targeted area is wide, so that you think you won't be able to predict where the target will appear and thus use an ambush marker effectively, you can try instead giving the gun a targeting order to the Jumbo, if anybody can see it. The target line will be black, but the 88 will still show a preference for that target, at least for the early part of the turn, if it comes into view. If it is going to be a while before the Jumbo comes into view, though, and if other distracting targets are possible for the gun, then staying on "hide" with an ambush marker is safer. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: All guns can place their own ambush markers; they don't need an HQ to do it for them. Leave the gun on "hide". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> AT guns placing Ambush markers themselves (not from a leader) are quite limited to the distance that they can place them. I don't understand why BTS modeled AT ambushes this way. AFAIC, AT guns should be able to place ambushes at any distance that they want to. What's the reasoning for allowing a 300m ambush but not a 400m ambush? Doesn't make sense. I'm going to start a thread in the CM forum to address these and other AT ambushing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 Originally posted by Pak40: [QB] AT guns placing Ambush markers themselves (not from a leader) are quite limited to the distance that they can place them. I don't understand why BTS modeled AT ambushes this way. AFAIC, AT guns should be able to place ambushes at any distance that they want to. What's the reasoning for allowing a 300m ambush but not a 400m ambush? Doesn't make sense. I think that's why I didn't use the ATG's ambush command to begin with, b/c the juiciest spot was not target-able in that fashion. I'll have to give it another shot, and pick the next best tile. I MUST knock out this Jumbo, its ruining my day. This Pak43 is my last decent AT asset. Thanks, S.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 Woops, I said Pak43. Its actually an 88mm FlaK gun. [ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olandt Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40: AT guns placing Ambush markers themselves (not from a leader) are quite limited to the distance that they can place them. I don't understand why BTS modeled AT ambushes this way. AFAIC, AT guns should be able to place ambushes at any distance that they want to. What's the reasoning for allowing a 300m ambush but not a 400m ambush? Doesn't make sense. I'm going to start a thread in the CM forum to address these and other AT ambushing issues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ambushes are already being modified in CMBB (according to other posts) to have a 2 point fireing arc, which would allow you to control distance and direction. See if it's in the CM2 FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by olandt: Ambushes are already being modified in CMBB (according to other posts) to have a 2 point fireing arc, which would allow you to control distance and direction. See if it's in the CM2 FAQ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i looked in the FAQ but I think that's referring to ambushes in general (directed by a leader unit) not from AT guns themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 One thing you CAN'T do with an ambush marker is assure that your ambush will not be triggered by one of those Stuarts. Also, the Jumbo could possibly slip right through your LOS in a single turn without ever triggering the ambush. I think in general it's a safer bet to target the Jumbo with your 88 and leave it in Hide mode. Then it will probably fire if it gets the chance, but stay hidden if the Stuarts waltz by. I'm not a big fan of the ambush command as it functions in CMBO, as I've spelled out in an earlier thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 another thing to avoid firing on the stuarts is hiding and an ambush marker to the rear of the gun. It will not fire at the stuarts,however you have to wait for the next turn to give a fire order,if the jumbo still is in LOS than a bit risky but it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stoffel: another thing to avoid firing on the stuarts is hiding and an ambush marker to the rear of the gun. It will not fire at the stuarts,however you have to wait for the next turn to give a fire order,if the jumbo still is in LOS than a bit risky but it works<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Gee, I've never heard of that one. Does the gun rotate toward the ambush marker, or stay pointed in its original direction? If the former, then it would seem to me TOO risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degus Posted August 15, 2001 Share Posted August 15, 2001 Speaking of ambushes...isn't there a way or shouldn't there be a way of keeping a gun from firing at passing infantry while waiting for armor to come in view, without keeping the gun hidden? Many times I've had a gun give away it's position shooting at infantry and get knocked out before it could target any armor. BTW, was Capt Millers statement in "private ryan" accurate? 2 "panzer tanks"...that's a little redundant isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Posted August 17, 2001 Share Posted August 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> BTW, was Capt Millers statement in "private ryan" accurate? 2 "panzer tanks"...that's a little redundant isn't it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> According to my English/German Dictionary, Panzer does mean tank ( or armour). So it is redundant. BTW, Did this FLAK 88 ever get to shoot the Jumbo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 17, 2001 Share Posted August 17, 2001 yes the gun keeps pointed in the original direction,but you have to give it a new targetorder to fire on a vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 21, 2001 Share Posted August 21, 2001 Give a target order and then let it hide again, with target order in effect and head down. That will cause them only to unhide when *this* vehicle comes into a good shooting position. I am not sure a 88 Flak will find a Jumbo worth shooting at at higher distances, maybe they will remain hidden. But in any case they will not shoot on the Stuarts even as they come into LOS or drive near an ambush marker (the alternative). Hide with target order in effect, it's in the manual IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted August 21, 2001 Author Share Posted August 21, 2001 The result- still waiting for it b/c my opponent is on vacation. I will certainly post the end result. Capt Miller- The 2 "panzer tanks" line is what Jackson in the bell tower communicates to him via hand signals...he was showing his FOW and I suppose he meant non-Tiger tank by 'panzer tank.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted September 5, 2001 Author Share Posted September 5, 2001 I finally resolved my AT gun ambush dilemma. I had to disguise the situation so my opponent, Soddball, wouldn't know what I had planned for his tank. It was actually my Bofors 40mm AAA vs. his Panzer IVH, range approx. 450m. The "Stuarts" I didn't want the gun to shoot at were actually just infantry. My opponent actually parked the PzIVH right where I wanted him to, within the AA guns tiny window of LOS. I opened up on the tank with a Bazooka right in front of it at 165m (hail mary shot attempt), a Greyhound to its right at 300m, and a .30cal to its right to distract/button it up. I got screwed, b/c the AAA gun DIDN'T OPEN FIRE AS ORDERED. The kill% was LOW, but orders are orders, aren't they? Anyhow, the bazooka missed 4 shots, and the 5th ignited the house he was in (he fled and survived). The Greyhound and Panzer traded shots, each missing 4 times, with the Panzer KO'ing the 'Hound on the 5th shot. ONLY THEN did my Bofors open up, 45 seconds into the turn. If it had fired earlier, it may have gotten a killing Side/flank shot, since the Panzer was rotated around 90 degress to engage the Greyhound on its left flank. As it was, the Panzer rotated around to MG my Bazooka, and thus had a (safe) frontal aspect to the Bofors. On the next turn, I pinged 11 shots off the Panzer as it retreated straight backwards. Only when it was 530m+ did I hit the thin turret, but the range prevented a penetration. The Bofors crew has already been cited for an upcoming court-martial...apparently they don't like LOW% shots unless my Global Morale drops when the AFV they are trying to protect dies. (dooh!!!) [ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Saunders Posted September 6, 2001 Share Posted September 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silvio Manuel: [QB I think that's why I didn't use the ATG's ambush command to begin with, b/c the juiciest spot was not target-able in that fashion. I'll have to give it another shot, and pick the next best tile. I MUST knock out this Jumbo, its ruining my day. This Pak43 is my last decent AT asset. [/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My two cents worth. I believe any unit can set an ambush marker, so your greyhound could have set the ambush marker and any other unit can target another units ambush marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted September 6, 2001 Author Share Posted September 6, 2001 woops. forgot to quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted September 6, 2001 Author Share Posted September 6, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergeant Saunders: My two cents worth. I believe any unit can set an ambush marker, so your greyhound could have set the ambush marker and any other unit can target another units ambush marker.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Dooh! I didn't realize that I could do that. That shortcoming will probably cost me the difference b/w a draw and a minor win or better. live'n'learn. darned panzer that should be riddled w/ 40mm's is now merrily shelling my troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 And it's gonna get worse, buddy! I'm just about to unlimber my arty and give you the hosing of your life. INCOMING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87H Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Maybe it is me but my ATGs are always in hidemode and rarely shoot anything beyond 300 meters. I usually just wait for the tank to get close enough and then I open up. The poor ATG is usually well supported with a small flak gun for light vehicle support and a few HMGs. Those ATGs are usually very accurate at those ranges that I can get it on the first shot. And if not on the first almost 90% of the time on the second. Most tanks have a hard time waxing a gun in heavy trees on the first shot. With the stealth abilities of ATGs and high rotate speed they are really great ambush weapons. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted September 8, 2001 Author Share Posted September 8, 2001 I didn't have the luxury of being in "hide" mode and waiting until his PzIV was 300m away. Picture a NARROW field of view | and it looked like his tank was going to (quickly) cross it / , and that would be at a range of about 450m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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