Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Hi All, I was just in a game where my opponent decided to run a bunch of jeeps up the edge of the map, followed by a few other recon vehicle, into my rear areas. I noticed he went through all my rear high elevation areas, presumably trying to flush out my ATG's and FO's. Is this considered gamey tactics? He even brought his jeeps to within 50m of my STuGs knowing they were helpless at firing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Yeah, I reckon it's gamey, but opponents who do that don't bother me. They're wasting precious points on sacrifices, especially if he's buying a couple of jeeps and scout cars. That's over 100 points worth, and you can get a lot of useful mortar and machine gun fire for that. Or a Stuart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Well he followed this up with a Stuart. I guess hoping to catch my AFV's hunting down/chasing his jeeps. Didn't work though. The Stuart went up in flames. Sadly the game crashed just as it was going in to extended time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Dear God, man, have you no historical background at all?! They did it all the time in Rat Patrol. Jesus, the quality of posters you see nowadays.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Perhaps I should be watching Rat Patrol then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Mantra: Perhaps I should be watching Rat Patrol then And don't come back here until you can tell me that you used a jeep w/.50 cal to shoot up a German HQ command post after rescuing your three captured buddies, you poseur! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Don't pay any attention to Seanachai. He's a raving lunatic. About 4 years ago there was a thread on the same topic. There were over 500 posts to the thread. It's a good question. Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. Would you follow an order to drive a JEEP all over an area where you KNOW the enemy is hidden, just to draw fire? If you were the CO would you order somebody to do something like that? It's actually a rookie tactic IMO. It doesn't work too awfully well, especially in CMBB and CMAK, and it DOES cost him some points that could be spent on something more lethal. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Treeburst155: Don't pay any attention to Seanachai. He's a raving lunatic. Treeburst155 out. I would have words for you, sir, and demand satisfaction for that remark, were it not for the hard kernel of truth at its heart. Tread carefully, though. You might want to add that I'm a thoughtful raving lunatic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The answer to such tactics is simple,cover arcs. Set them in a way your armor will not fire on the jeep. Wait till the jeep comes in range of some infantry and shoot it into pieces. Cheap way to kill a lot of points on your enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Don't pay any attention to Seanachai. He's a raving lunatic. Yes, I am aware of Seanachai's antics. Although I agree with what has been said in reguard to it being a waste of pts. It sort of indirectly worked. You see all I had were StuGs. Turretless armour is at a big disadvantage in this situation. I didn't bother hunting the jeeps down with them, but the jeeps were bees in a bonet so to speak (they were destory later by MGs and Mortors) Because of the jeeps I couldn't employ the StuGs effectively for fear of being sidesmacked by some of his AFV that he later brought up. I ended up lossing 3 StuGs this way. Mind you he spend so much time and energy on these maneuvers that it cost him most the the objective flags. Only one wasn't in control at the time the game crashed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjames Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I wouldn't call it a rookie tactic. It has been done to me by some folks in the top 30 at the blitz. But boy does it throw a wrench in the works. You have to go back and redo all them commands if you had them on move to contact. I only consider it gamey if I lose. But if you are in a meeting engagement I would think it shouldn't matter since it is supposed to be a 'chance meeting'. I question the guy that flew up to the buildings and flamed them all where as I would have no positon to attack from, is that better or worse than letting the men gain the building in the middle and THEN proceed to blow them down with the big guns, routing my troops. From my prespective it is as I have heard in some war movie, expect the unexpected, adapt and over come , ... blah blah, it is early and I will quit rambling 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridericus Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. wrong. just read "Das Auge der Division" (the eye of the division), where a Untersturmfuehrer of the recon battaillon describes, how the 17. SSPzGrnDiv "GvB" did recon: They drove with highest speed to enemy, then jumped off the schwimmwagen (swim capable version of kuebel). in cm you can avoid this with some MGs. but you will lose every match, when only your opponent recons. at least in turn 3 i have to penetrate the setup-zone of my enemy in a normal qb meeting. [ February 25, 2004, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: fridericus ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Mantra: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Don't pay any attention to Seanachai. He's a raving lunatic. Yes, I am aware of Seanachai's antics. Although I agree with what has been said in reguard to it being a waste of pts. It sort of indirectly worked. You see all I had were StuGs. Turretless armour is at a big disadvantage in this situation. I didn't bother hunting the jeeps down with them, but the jeeps were bees in a bonet so to speak (they were destory later by MGs and Mortors) Because of the jeeps I couldn't employ the StuGs effectively for fear of being sidesmacked by some of his AFV that he later brought up. I ended up lossing 3 StuGs this way. Mind you he spend so much time and energy on these maneuvers that it cost him most the the objective flags. Only one wasn't in control at the time the game crashed. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by fridericus: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. wrong. just read "Das Auge der Division" (the eye of the division), where a Untersturmfuehrer of the recon battaillon describes, how the 17. SSPzGrnDiv "GvB" did recon: They drove with highest speed to enemy, then jumped off the schwimmwagen (swim capable version of kuebel). in cm you can avoid this with some MGs. but you will lose every match, when only your opponent recons. at least in turn 3 i have to penetrate the sporn-zone of my enemy in a normal qb meeting. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridericus Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 How often did this happen? daily. after the whole division was attacked, they stopped recon and had to fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Mantra: Yes, I am aware of Seanachai's antics. That seemed so...so...dismissive. I've got my eye on you, Mantra. I may have to put you on a list. I'm having Arthur Anderson audit them these days...they need the work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Buy light Flak, HMGs or SdKfz 222 yourself. Protect the flanks of your StuGs with them. Autocannons as the 20L55 are great for dealing with jeeps or halftracks. On a short distance, they might get a side kill on a Stuart. The funny thing is that I did have some flak plus SPHT. But the jeeps can be, and were used for, BORG spotting with a FO. In 2 minutes I lost 3 soft skined vehicles. With them out of the way the StuGs can be BORG spotted for his AFV that were hidding behind a high hill on my flank. That's what really pissed me off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by Mantra: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Buy light Flak, HMGs or SdKfz 222 yourself. Protect the flanks of your StuGs with them. Autocannons as the 20L55 are great for dealing with jeeps or halftracks. On a short distance, they might get a side kill on a Stuart. The funny thing is that I did have some flak plus SPHT. But the jeeps can be, and were used for, BORG spotting with a FO. In 2 minutes I lost 3 soft skined vehicles. With them out of the way the StuGs can be BORG spotted for his AFV that were hidding behind a high hill on my flank. That's what really pissed me off. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Like Stoffel already noted, I'd use infantry to deal with the jeeps. Hide some suads (or half-squads) in suitable positions to protect your valuable units or to guard possible approach routes, give them appropriate cover arcs, then sit back and watch them killing off the jeeps that are dumb enough to get within their range. I myself lost countless jeeps to infantry - a dozen soldiers with rifles is by far more lethal for a soft skinned vehicle than a tank - and when issued the hide command, the jeep doesn't see them, until it's already too late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REVS Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Mantra wrote It sort of indirectly worked. You see all I had were StuGs. Turretless armour is at a big disadvantage in this situation. And that's why combined arms theory is such a good thing. You're prepared for any eventuality. Any other type of force is simply gambling. You're hoping the other guy doesn't come up with something that exploits your weak point. Choose a nicely balanced side that can cope with any eventuality and you're in a good spot. Choose an unbalanced side, like a gambler, and the gambler on the other side might get lucky. So who was being GAMEY in the first place, huh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by fridericus: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. wrong. just read "Das Auge der Division" (the eye of the division), where a Untersturmfuehrer of the recon battaillon describes, how the 17. SSPzGrnDiv "GvB" did recon: They drove with highest speed to enemy, then jumped off the schwimmwagen (swim capable version of kuebel). </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Instead of seeing 'recon by death' as an attempt to take advantage of the game's limitations, it could also be seen as an attempt to COMPENSATE for the game's limitations. I don't know how many times I've started a scenario on one corner of the map, looked across to the distant objective flags at the other corner, then looked down to the totally inadequate "Turn 1 of 25" counter! How am I expected to do any decent preliminary recon under such a time constraint? Going into the scenario editor and changing the counter to 70 turns has its good and bad points. The good point is you've got the time to do recon, probe the defenses, and maneuver your forces before initial contact. The bad point is if the battle starts sooner than you expect you and your opponent could both find yourselves sitting out the last 50 turns with totally depleted ammo stocks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Originally posted by fridericus: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Using cheap vehicles, crews, bazookas, panzerschrecks, etc. to do "recon by death" is gamey in the extreme. wrong. just read "Das Auge der Division" (the eye of the division), where a Untersturmfuehrer of the recon battaillon describes, how the 17. SSPzGrnDiv "GvB" did recon: They drove with highest speed to enemy, then jumped off the schwimmwagen (swim capable version of kuebel). in cm you can avoid this with some MGs. but you will lose every match, when only your opponent recons. at least in turn 3 i have to penetrate the setup-zone of my enemy in a normal qb meeting. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantra Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Choose an unbalanced side, like a gambler, and the gambler on the other side might get lucky. So who was being GAMEY in the first place, huh? My choice of forces, in this case STuGs, was primaily based upon what I could get in a 1500 ME combined arms game. There was no intenion of being GAMEY as you say. Perhaps next time I'll take some Uber Armour 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 The bad point is if the battle starts sooner than you expect you and your opponent could both find yourselves sitting out the last 50 turns with totally depleted ammo stocks. You can easily avoid that fate by using the "Cease Fire" button. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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