BFCElvis Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dear Huddled Masses, Here is an idea that popped into my pea brain after comments by Andreas in a recent CMBB battle. Would it be possible(or worth doing) in CMX to have a grand strategic map that had a series of drop down menus to select month and year. When a month and year are selected the map displays where all major units were located historically (I'm thinking divisions). When you click on a unit all scenarios involving that unit at that time and place are displayed. Also, all QBs launched from that location would be limited to the historical units available to those units (both friendly and enemy) at that place and time. QB random maps would be determined by the weather and terrain of that area at the time and place as well. There would, of course, need to be an area for scenarios and QBs that are not based on historic set ups. I am not talking about a campaign type feature. Just a cool way to sort scenarios and limit QB selection options. Love, Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Let's test how feasible this is. Tell us the locations of every frontline division in Europe in September 1944 and what unit restrictions you would imply for them. I'll be taking time on your progress - and you better not make any mistakes, or I'll send Grog Dorosh after you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I can't help but like the sort of thing Elvis describes. I don't know if it's feasible, but I like the idea. -dale 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 Dear Sergie, If you are serious I will reseach it and run it by you and Michael. I have been invovled in CPX, CMMC1 and currently CMMC2. In all of these OOBs were obtained fairly easily (of course that is easy for me to say because I didn't do the research). CMBB and CMAK already do the OOB for certain areas and dates right now. I would have to assume that the historical OOBs that are availble now are based on research for accuracy. This would be fine tuning of that research. Again, I'm not married to this idea. It seemed like something that might be cool. If I have underestimated the amount of research vs game payoff then I sit corrected. Was division too small of a unit to think about? Perhaps. How many divisions were involved in the Normandy invasion for just the allied side? Hell, for that matter I can't even tell you what the highest number of divisions there were in western Europe at any given time. Love, Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 You're right Sergei, it wouldn't work. But nevertheless i like Elvis' idea very much. How about the possibility to create scenario packs, but be able to present them the way Elvis' describes? Different scenarios could be finally brought into a visual and strategic context and wouldn't it be great to play battles 'Stalingrad Pack' from such a visual environment? I.e. an operational map showing the locations of the unit(s), the time, and pop up menus could offer additional info (i.e. real-life photos). If you decide to play a battle on a certain location, you're zoomed into the map to find yourself seconds later on the virtual battlefield of this scenario. To complete the effect, after the battle, there should be a possibility for the designer, to present some info to the player again (i.e. how the battle(s) ended in real life) and then you're brought back to the strategic map. The already played battles/locations should be marked by CM in some way. [ December 09, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Fauster Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Personally, I like the idea. I'm sure volunteers could be found to locate and track Division deployment throughout the course of the war. For example, I'd volunteer to track Divisions 1 through 4 (my old Division), and then research where each division was for each month from say formation through May, 1945. Put that information in a spreadsheet and send it (with source references) to my heroes at BTS. [ December 09, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Von Fauster ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 The main problem with the idea is that while there is plenty of info available for some units, some others are less often featured. Clearly a lot more info is available on the British 6th Airborne division than the 389th Kirghiz Assault Brigade. And as we have seen that just the existence of some weapons on a whole FRONT can sometimes be hard to establish, I will be feeling sorry for anyone who is trying to offer this group of customers a representation of equipment availability on a unit by unit, month by month basis. Really, it's an awful amount of work to do if you want to make it more than "a bit that way". Probably would have to do it more roughly by using the current "division type" (inf, mech, SS, SS mech, Geb, Fallsch, etc.) for an approximation. Maybe you meant that in the first place. But then it comes into issue that within divisions (or any formations) there were extreme differences in equipment, especially as some just didn't have what they were supposed to have due to losses. The idea itself I do like, it would be nice at least to see something like where the frontlines were at the time. Or something. Personally I'd prefer if BFC allowed for exporting and importing data from BFC inbetween battles, that would allow people to create functioning interfaces for their own campaign systems. I personally find there enough playing satisfaction the way it is already, though. Well, the operations could work better... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmeadows Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 why not work on a campaign mode. Combat Mission makes great missions and operations are a step ahead and now progress to a campaign model especially if the next game is to be about the early part of the war. Based on how you do on a particular mission you receive reinforcements your units gain experience which should factor into their effectiveness and progress until you are "reassigned" or are victorous. Medals would be awarded and maybe for example if you do well in the Polish campaign can help spearhead the attack on Norway or France. In my opinion for the combat mission games to contiue their great success they must improve graphics which the new engine is doing, implement more realism which new engine is apparently doing and add more variety like a campaign system. Once this is mastered then what elvis is talking about may not seem so impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 Dear Dmeadows, BTS has said for years that the scale of combat used in CM does not make for realistic extended operations. Love, Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Originally posted by Elvis: Dear Sergie, If you are serious I will reseach it and run it by you and Michael. This is doable, Elvis. If you tracked the airborne and armoured units, and simply had a count of the standard "leg" infantry divisions, that is. Track the StuG units and tank-desroyer units, too. I'm quite serious - the info is out there, and it would be a lot of work. Show us what you come up with for September 1944. First Canadian Army was in Belgium; under command were the 2nd Canadian Corps - 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, 3rd Canadian Infantry Division and 4th Canadian (Armoured) Division, as well as 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade (independent). The Polish division may have been under command as well - probably as part of the British Corps that was also under command. I can find out more detailed info if you are indeed serious. Start from the top and work down. Place the Army Groups, then the Armies, then the corps. For the German corps - especially on the eastern front - you could probably simply say something like XX Panzer Corps 7th Panzer Division 27th Panzer Grenadier Division 42nd Panzer Grenadier Division(I am obviously making the numbers up). XXVII Army Corps 5 x Infantry Division (1944 pattern) 1 x Light Division 1 x StuG Brigade Pick the actual dispositions as of 15 September 1944 and apply them to the whole month. If GD was part of Army Group South on 7 September but moved to Army Group North by the 21st - pick one or the other, or list them (better yet) as unavailable for the whole month. I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 That's a GREAT idea, Elvis. It would really simplify scenario choices for people who know some WWII history, but don't have grog knowledge about unit positions at a specific time and place, much less available weaponry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Perhaps an easier variant of this would be to have a map of the AO which would show all scenarios with dates shown. This would have a mass of scenarios in NA (measle sheeted), Sicily and up to the Po valley. That would be a less massive project that the original concept. Different years etc (especially for NA) could be shown in different colors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 10, 2003 Author Share Posted December 10, 2003 Dear Michael Dorosh, I will begin work on it at once. Also, I need to discuss something else with you. I tried to send you an email a while ago but never got a response. Can you please email me at the email addy in my profile. Love, Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Shocker Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 It is a nice idea but only window dressing. You use "strategic map" but it is not truly strategic in that what you do in one area might affect the resources you use or outcomes that occur in another area. That kind of operational or strategic map does not appear to be on the horizon, unfortunately. But I won't use this thread to beat that dead horse. Sounds like this can be done as an amateur or volunteer effort since it will involve a lot of library work or research and can be accommodated using technology most of us have (spreadsheet or database software). It can also be divided into well-defined chunks. It could work if those involved decide upon: 1) A standard format including what info needs to be collected. 2) How the labor will be divided (e.g., by time period or by unit) 3) Who will be the database developer,depository and collator of the information collected. Did I miss anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 Has BFC stated what features they're aiming for in the new CMX engine? Or is it all spectulation up until now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted December 10, 2003 Share Posted December 10, 2003 John If that is what whinging at you gets as a response, remind me to whinge more often. Hugs Andreas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Dear Urban Shocker, My idea was is not intended to take the CM engine to a stratigic level. Mearly a neat way to sort scenarios and give QBS a more historical background. So if for instance you wanted to play a scenario with units from the 81st Airborne in September 1944 all your choices would be located in a single spot. Our server at work crahsed today so I wasn't able to do as much research as I had hoped to. I do however have a list of all "armies" that were in Western Europe in September 1944. Now it is just a matter of finding out what divisions were attached to those armies. Love, Elvis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Elvis: Dear Michael Dorosh, I will begin work on it at once. Also, I need to discuss something else with you. I tried to send you an email a while ago but never got a response. Can you please email me at the email addy in my profile. Love, Elvis Email sent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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