Alrighty Then! Scenario of the Week: Fruhlingswind

[Shep]

Here by public demand!

Post your AARs; your brilliant analysis; your wins and losses; confess your tactical sins and trumpet your genius.

[dalem]

SPOILER

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I took the Americans v. the AI and sent a rifle platoon supported by the Grant platoon in on a quick spoiling attack from the far forward American left. I left all other scenario default deployments alone, kept everything hidden but the ATG and HTs.

I walloped the Germans pretty hard until the group of PzIIIs ont he German far left got into position. I tried to pull back the lead (attacking) element and lost heavily withdrawing it. The rest was the Shermans and HTs getting lucky against the remaining 4 AI PzIIIs, pretty much an even exchange, with me ending up with one Sherman and two PzIIIs left when the AI surrendered. The AI infantry, basically sans panzer support, was butchered anywhere it poked forward. I got my attacking platoon pretty well shot up but the rest of the guys were fine.

-dale

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by dalem:

SPOILER

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I took

Final score?

[dalem]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Final score?

Don't remember. It was pretty much in my favor though. All flags held, 19 AFV killed to 9 lost, light inf casualties.

-dale

[Shep]

This thread needs a big time spoiler alert.

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I also took the Americans vs. the AI, using the default setup for both sides, except I put both halftracks in the orchard next to the oasis.

I hunkered down with the 37 mm ATG on the American left, forward of the oasis, and waited the onslaught. First came infantry and a few paltry Armored Cars, which were dispatched without much ado. A couple of them lasted a few turns by juking.

When the German armor came, it came in droves, and here's what I noticed: RICHOCHETS GALORE. Shattering shells, richochets, and partial penetrations are the general story in this scenario. The Grants hold the line, and begin to win a war of attrition against the PZ IIIs.

In the mid-game, the German infantry has penetrated down the ravine, and are causing some trouble. My 37 MM in the middle is knocked out. 1 Grant takes 1 casualty and I wonder if they can take 2 casualties without abandoning ship. 7 guys in a tank! I remember when four was a crowd in a big M60A1, a monster by WW2 standards. I am also plinking the IIIMs enough to know that victory is looking good.

I send the Shermans up through the orchard, and they also engage the IIIMs with the same effect. A halftrack goes down, and I notice that they both seem to have a shoot & scoot mentality without my telling them. They don't like enemy armor even if they do have to shoot at them once in a while.

After a few turns, I lose a Grant. A hundred more ricochets happen, and then I decide to use the Shermans to roust the German infantry out of the ravine. They're pretty effective, but one Shermie gets immobilized and another takes a gun hit from a panzer. Both eventually abandon with full crews, thanks to the pesky proximity of the infantry and the still consistent tank fire.

Finally it ends. The map view shows one PZIIIM left out of the fifteen. I lose a smattering of infantry, a halftrack, an ATG, a Sherman, and a Grant. Major victory, Allies.

[Broken]

This is a fun little scenario, not in the least because it attempts to recreate the start of the Kasserine Pass battles. Not a very complicated game as the Germans against the AI, unless you are one of those who isn't satisfied unless you trounce the AI 90 to 10.

Evidently there is an AAR around here on a similar scenario from before the Demo release, but I didn't read it, so please excuse my ignorance. Having just read "An Army at Dawn" I expected the Americans to have M3 mediums, Stuarts, and halftrack TDs. The Shermans came as a bit of a surprise.

The map has three routes of approach for the German recon company, so I simply sent one platoon down each and kept the weapons platoon on the central rocky peak. I was going to wait until all the Panzer IIIs arrived before sending the light armor "over the top" but my impatience got the better of me, especially when the 75mm halftracks starting bothering my recon.

The halftracks died quick, but so did my light armor when the Ami tanks and AT guns opened up. The AT guns were taken care of by my 81mm mortar spotter and my Panzer IIIs crested the ridge for a gunnery duel with the Ami M3s and M4s at 800 meters.

Those Ami tanks are tough to kill with the long 50mms on the P IIIs at 800ms, so after blazing away for a few turns with little effect except for wasting all my T rounds, I charged my tanks forward for some close action at 200-300 meters. The P IIIs made mincemeat of the green US M3s at that range. The AI isn't very brilliant in that sort of action.

The Amis got some revenge by killing some M IIIs with their Shermans hiding in the orchard, but they all died too by turn 20. Then it was just a matter of running amuck against the Ami infantry. Watch out for the bazookas, another little surprise.

This is not a difficult scenario (at least as Germans), but it is good armored mayhem. I got a 66-34 score despite a number of bone-headed decisions and sloppiness. The armor combat simulation is quite different from the CMBO experience with the same tanks, so this game is a good one to learn the differences.

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Broken:

. . . snip . . .I was going to wait until all the Panzer IIIs arrived before sending the light armor "over the top" but my impatience got the better of me, especially when the 75mm halftracks starting bothering my recon. . . . snip . . .

This too was my first battle to play. I went as Axis also because defending against the AI can sometimes be more entertaining than challenging {especially in open terrain}.

I followed the same route, except I waited for all my tanks to show up. So I crested all 15 Mark III's in the same turn. The Ami's five grants had camped the small building flag up to that point so I called in my 81mm barrage to hit the turn before I crested.

It worked perfectly. The grants were not happy with the pesky mortar fire so they turned to move away. So just as my Mark III's crest, they are perfectly broadside to my approach. They got off a few shots, but all five of them where knocked out in that one turn.

This whole time my infantry was moving up through the ravine and my left flank {nive cover for both}. I was surprised that the light AT guns opened up on the infantry, but I was not one to complain about it. My MG's in the rocks gave suppressing fire just fine.

Then came the interesting part. The shermans. I too was not expecting any shermans to show up and they held their own for some time against my Mark III's. But immobilization got to most of them and the others were picked off later. It was especially interesting to have dust kicked up both from firing and from near misses. Nice effect both for gameplay and eye candy.

To end my long story, once the grants, shermans, and 37's were out of the picture, I moved my remaining 14 (I lost one to a sherman) Mark III's up with infantry following. It was a sad sight from then on. Infantry in the desert have no defense against massed armor.

I really enjoyed this scenario and it seemed nicely balanced. Would make for a good PBEM. Yet, I liked the other one better, especially with attacking as the Ami's. I miss my shermans and greyhounds. I just hope rarity factor doesnt make the M8HMC too expensive!

Chad

[GreenAsJade]

I was mostly interested to see the multi-turrets do their stuff, without really spoiling the scenario for when I get an opponent.

So - I took the allies and just hit "go" and "play" all the time.

It appeared I was gonna whip the AI Axis just doing this!

I got past where I get the first reinforcements, and a group of Panzers appeared and all got popped off... I was starting to get interested in seeing if I could win using the "do nothing" tactic, but it was past midnight, so this test is still waiting there for someone...

[laxx]

most entertaining.

i won't go into what i did here or what route i took, safe to say, it doesn't deviate from the earlier posts here, what is interesting are the new stuff i noticed:

- troop movements in the open desert is quite hazardous! i had to creep/sneak my men among the bushes. What is tough is trying to position my HMGs/off board motars.

- richochet city. alot less first time fatal penetration, but alot of non-damage hits. At first I thought the allies had crack tank platoons, but i found out they were just green/regulars.

- M3 Grants die like fruit flies up close whilst the ATG in the trench took forever to kill. I reserve my comments on shermans *eyes rolled up*

- my pow amerikans surrendered then in the next turn tried to run away, got caught and promptly surrendered agains. *sneaky*

- dust storms is a nice touch, yet to read up on their effects on concealment.

overall, this scenario is bigger than CMBB tutorial, somewhat smaller than CMBO Chance Encounter but alot of skills needed than CE.

Yes, I promptly pre-ordered the game

[ November 21, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: laxx ]

[kingjames]

I never had cmbb, so this was almost total shock to system. I took the americans and ended up with total victory I think.. I know I had 30 casualties, and 1 halftrack, 1 sherman, and 1 grant knocked out. Oh yea and one AT gun. I took 7 prisoners, (I did see one infantry squad that were marked captured get wiped out in the next round) We caused 257 casualties, and knocked out 19 vehicles.. At the end we had 242 men ok and the germans had 100. And here I thought I was a genius for deploying my men foward. I think it comes down to the A1 is going to make you look like a genius.

[Thin Red Line]

I wonder if my 20mm HTs are able to take out this US HT with a gun.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Hah, I finally managed to get good service from my 20mm HT. I sneaked one behind the hill, the other two died on the way despite my MkIIIMs cresting way on the other side. The Lees got interested in chipping in against the IIIs after they overran the American left and destroyed two Shermans. So the HT hunts around the hill but unfortunately faces a Lee head on. It's guns adjust for range, I prepare for my HT to die as it bounces a round of the Lees front. POW! A shell from a IIIM takes out and sets on fire the offending Lee. My HT hunts further and catches a Lee side on. It fires two rounds into it's side. But then the 37mm turret swings round. Another tungsten round penetrates the Lee. The Lee fires, it hits... and my HT takes the round like a trooper! WOOT! The Lee tries to move out but another round penetrates side armour. It's dead, I thought, but the 37mm takes aim again and I'm thinking, I'm not that lucky again. But my HT gets it's shot out first. KABLOOIE! A catastrophic hit blows the Lee to bits. I was so proud of my little HT. It went on to take out the last Sherman hiding in the orchard from the rear with three shots without the Sherman ever responding.

Sometimes you just know you are going to forever remember a vehicle crew. Wassisname.

[Nippy]

I tried it once as the Americans and got my ass kicked. :mad:

I played line of defence a few times and came to this conclusion: American tanks need to hold platoon formation. 4 up front in a line with the HQ tank a bit to the rear.

So I gave it another go and did it a lot better this time. I lost 4 Grants (only HQ was alive) and 1 Sherman to the enemies 26 dead vehicles.

I left the grants where they were and when the Shermans showed up, I moved them in one huge line to the edge of the orchard. The German tanks would face the Shermans, exposing their soft sides to the 37mms of the Grants. Some other interesting things were:

- Burn baby burn! I had most of the map on fire by the end of the battle. Huge patches of fire started blocking LOS a lot

- Hiding tanks seems to work much better now. A M3HT hidden in the orchard got the drop on the 222s out in the open. The other M3HT used the Mosque as cover to shoot and scoot, and managed to bag a few PZIIIs.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

I wonder if my 20mm HTs are able to take out this US HT with a gun.

One of 'em nailed both my HTs with shots from the front. Those HTs are eggs with hammers, and not very big hammers at that. No wonder the Army dropped them as quickly as they could. No matter what deficits the M10 suffered from, it was definitely a big step up from the M3 GMC.

Michael

[Shep]

What not to do. If I get whupped by the AI using a strategy, it seems safe to say it won't work against a reasonably competent human being.

I put the Grant platoon forward.

(waits for laughter to die down).

I put them in front of their default position, right next to the berm there and out of sight of the enemy. I wanted to try shoot & scoot with them, hoping to get some flank shots against the panzers in the middle.

Instead, here's what happened:

1) The Shermans hunted through the orchard, and then learned about massed fire. The rate of fire, and the massed fire of 15 tanks knocked out two, gun killed one, and broke and panicked the other two.

2) Round one of shoot & scoot... green tank crews sure do dawdle. They roll up, shoot, miss, and roll back. A couple of panzer crews raise their eyebrows. The GE recon infantry gets shot up because they were almost to the lip of the berm. The Grant MGs do indeed work.

3) Realizing that green crews aren't going to get a lot of first shot hits, I make it a mass hunt command... The command tank runs up and collects all the attention, and before he realizes his command delay is shorter than the green guys, he notices his tank is letting in a lot of daylight and his crew is leaking their vital fluids. The other green tanks are overwhelmed in the next two turns without getting a single kill.

The sole highlight from then on was a bazooka getting a first shot kill from 120 meters. Evidently the guy should have gone to sniper school. After the great shot, he became the nexus of many, many yellow lines, and poof!

Both flags got overrun, although the Germans took about 100 infantry casualties. Minor victory, Germans. 59-41, I think.

The Grants and Shermans need to keep the engagement range at long, and be willing to win an attrition war.

Any other innovations? Successful innovations?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

You could always try what i did, deploy the Grants as far forwar on your left and fast move them over the ridge. Let your 37mm and HT deal with the ACs and HT that crest the ridge. The Grants meanwhile hug the far edge and wait for the panzers to show up. The first ones die whitout ever having a chance. Only the ones that deploy on the German left escape this slaughter...if I hadn't rushed my Sherman as fast as they can, out of formation. 22-0 in the vehicle department. Lost one 37mm AT gun to a lame arty attack.

Gamey as heck but I am a great believer in kicking people when they are down.

[Breakthrough]

I was so impressed with Scenario @ 1 I wrote this haiku..

'The Axis is bad'

'The Allies are good'

'I sure held the crossroads,

'at Sidi bel Zoud'

Good huh? :cool:

[General Bolt]

Spoiler

I took the Americans because I wanted to see the M3 use their two guns.

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At the set up I placed the platoon that was by the southern flag, on the ridge just on the first right on the east side of the SidiBouZid road. I did leave the MG in the building (Doh-I didn’t see it). I positioned all 5 M3s just behind that platoon.

My plan: Hang out letting the AI advance.

The AT guns and the HTs took out most of the ACs and German HTs. As AI advanced his inf towards the platoon at the north, my troops were able to suppress the Ger advance. When the Shermans showed up I positioned them in the date grove. They did a fine job as the PzIIIs were committed piecemeal in to the battle. Two Shermans and one HTs were lost with 7 PzIII being neutralized.

The recon company of inftary did advance on the platoon I had moved forward. The M3s were able to break up that attack. AI then advanced 3 PzIIIs down the southern edge of the map and two more on the low side of that southern ridge. Again the sprinkling of his tanks allowed my M3s to reverse facing several times to eliminate this threat. In this action two M3s were lost. Both of these were killed by 2 more PzIII sitting off on the southeatern hill.

With 2 german tanks and 6 US tanks remaining I charged all remaining tanks and routed most of the Ger Inf. One more M3 was lost taking out the final 2 German tanks.

Bottom line: AI is still pretty bad while attacking, and watching both guns on the Grants fire was pretty cool. The other thing I noticed was burning bushes. There were 4 major brush fires going by the time the game ended. Three were started by mortar fire(on and off board) one was started by a burning tank. Dust is great.

As was previouslt reported on another thread, I also saw how the smoke from burning tanks start out slowly and build for 30 seconds or so.

I’m really glad to be playing using the Americans again.

[Tank Ace]

Ok I first played as americans and found it too easy to domniate the field by just staying back and shooting inf and pnzIII. then i played as jerrys. I found a weak point in the AIs line and exploited it with tanks and infantry. In the end all allied tanks destoryed, 2 axis tanks left. Even though it was a draw it felt like a huge victory to me. I sent 10 tanks down this weak point and made it too some cover. on the other flank i sent 5 tanks and the personal cars charging at grants and shermans. the apcs were used as decoys for me to get my panzers behind a ridge and pick of the tanks one by one using about 3 tanks against 1 grant. Well it worked i lost 3 tanks from those 5 and preceded to follow the ridge and then knocked out a sherman and 2 grants. with my 2 tanks remaining, the AI made a wrong move with his last tank and got his gun damaged. then inf moved in and threw a grenade bundle and the tank was gone. the 10 tanks i sent at "the weak point" were to move quickly to attack "the weak point". i sent 5 in the open and 5 in a gulley. 5 tanks ran over an at gun and knocked it out, then the inf came in and got the heck shot at them from grants. the halftracks were sent in as decoys and managed to take out a gmc. then 3 tanks "hunted" to a killing spot and knocked out 1 sherman. then i lost 1 . then the other one was taken out a short time later. with i used every weapon avaiable to decieve and fight the enemy. All I have to say is, that is one the coolest scenarios i've ever played.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Breakthrough:

I was so impressed with Scenario @ 1 I wrote this haiku..

'The Axis is bad'

'The Allies are good'

'I sure held the crossroads,

'at Sidi bel Zoud'

Good huh? :cool:

After Breakthrough wrote his haiku,

I just didn't quite know what to do,

So I hemmed, and I hawwed,

As to the bathroom I trod,

His hard copy was handy in the loo...

[Michael Emrys]

When Dorosh tries to write poetry

He really falls out of his tree

He lands on his head

In a dank flower bed

Then totters on off to have tea

Michael

[Michael Dorosh]

Why has no one reviewed this one at the depot yet?

The scenario I mean, not the poetry/limericks/haiku?

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

spoiler (althogh by now everybody has played this one)

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First try was axis, and ended in a massacre/draw. I tried a long distance tank battle hoping for the effect of better geman targetting and that the green american tank troops would chicken out like their russian counterparts in CMBB. this was not the case. when i played the americans I was able to confirm this. my green sherman crews happily blasted away although they were being targetted and hit by several PzIIIs.

my second try as axis ended in total victory, as I remembered to use smoke screens. I also raced forward to take out the grants quickly before the shermans arrived. i then hid my PzIIIs behind the house and waited until the AI made its usual mistake of sending out its tanks piecemeal (out of the orchard).

playing the americans is fairly easy and if I hadnt stupidly left my grants out in the open (in stead of hiding them in the orchard with the shermans)a total victory would have been possible.

[Shep]

I've review Fruhlingswind at the Depot. Someone else chime in now too.

By the way, has anyone used German HE artillery as the equivalent of smoke? It seems that HE fire can be dual purpose now. Chew up a lot of dust and use it just like a smokescreen...

[PeterX]

*****SPOILER*****

You could always try what i did, deploy the Grants as far forwar on your left and fast move them over the ridge.

Ye, Elmar, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Due to the shallow map and generous setup zone, the Amis can deploy the Grant platoon forward, Fast Move into the German zone, blast away for 4 turns, then reverse out of harm's way as the panzers start arriving. You may lose 1 Grant if you're unlucky.

I tried this out againt the AI and destroyed all the German HTs and 3 of the PSWs + 70 casualties. The tactic, I'm afraid, would work equally as well against a human.

Thus this scenario, as it stands is FUBAR. For PBEM you'd need to establish a Gentleman's Agreement. The simple solution is to contract the American setup zone but there's no editor. I understand that BFC had to shrink the maps to alleviate the download but the testers should have caught this.