US Infantry Company 1:1

[JonS]

well, you could do that now (and I do sometimes) by fiddling about with the 'command' attribute for each of the HQs (+1 or +2 for defenders, 0 for attackers).

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

MAJ Gibson...Sir....good luck! How many armoured regiments do you have Down Under?

1 x Tk

4 x Recce (2 Full time, 2 Reserve)

2 x APC (1 Full time, 1 Reserve)

2 x Ind Recce Sqns (both Reserve)

Meanwhile back on the topic ...

[Wubbits]

Originally posted by gibsonm:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

MAJ Gibson...Sir....good luck! How many armoured regiments do you have Down Under?

1 x Tk

4 x Recce (2 Full time, 2 Reserve)

2 x APC (1 Full time, 1 Reserve)

2 x Ind Recce Sqns (both Reserve)

Meanwhile back on the topic ... </font>

[gibsonm]

Nothing there that you can’t get off Defence or Army’s web sites.

[Private Bluebottle]

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

In CMx2 we can simulate the crew switching back and forth between manning the carrier and manning the mortar. Probably could even swing having them dismount the Bren

The bren most likely wasn't 'mounted' in the carrier, rather it would have been carried. IIRC most support weapons carriers were of the Windsor type - i.e., unarmed.

</font>

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

-snip good stuff-

Note also the use of the 2" mortar for "marking targets", something a CM player doesn't have to do because he is omniscient.

Oh, good point. That could be fun if using colored smoke on targets acted as a sort of temporary TRP.

</font>

[Aguirre]

Originally posted by Hoolaman:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

-snip good stuff-

Note also the use of the 2" mortar for "marking targets", something a CM player doesn't have to do because he is omniscient.

Oh, good point. That could be fun if using colored smoke on targets acted as a sort of temporary TRP.

</font>

[dalem]

Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

What I'd like is for this option to be applied right across all infantry units. Further, if possible it would be nice for soldiers to either abandon or take up abandoned weapons. Nothing annoys me more than watching a 2in Mortar forced to carry around an empty weapon for most of a battle, when in reality he'd have been using his rifle once he ran out of mortar rounds.

I think Steve's pretty much said this will be the case, or at least that that is the intent. Either earlier in this thread or maybe the "1:1 Tank Crewmen?" thread.

-dale

[General Bolt]

Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS:

What I'd like is for this option to be applied right across all infantry units. Further, if possible it would be nice for soldiers to either abandon or take up abandoned weapons. Nothing annoys me more than watching a 2in Mortar forced to carry around an empty weapon for most of a battle, when in reality he'd have been using his rifle once he ran out of mortar rounds. </font>

I like this variable skill set for each unit applied to a different weapon type. Even a AT gun could be operated at less than green level.

A squad comes across the last remaining 50Cal dude. "Hey Sarge, have a couple of your men help me carry this to the next set of trees and I'll provide some cover fire."

[Conscript Bagger]

Originally posted by Wubbits:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gibsonm:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

MAJ Gibson...Sir....good luck! How many armoured regiments do you have Down Under?

1 x Tk

4 x Recce (2 Full time, 2 Reserve)

2 x APC (1 Full time, 1 Reserve)

2 x Ind Recce Sqns (both Reserve)

Meanwhile back on the topic ... </font>

[Battlefront.com]

Jon,

The bren most likely wasn't 'mounted' in the carrier, rather it would have been carried. IIRC most support weapons carriers were of the Windsor type - i.e., unarmed.

When the Bren was found it was, I'm pretty sure, mounted on the AA post on the bulkhead. But you're right, IIRC, that it wasn't mounted in the forward armored spot.

Incidentally, if you do manage to e.g. have them manning a bren and PIAT, will it also be practical or worthwhile to model them with inferior skills on the secondary weapon? E.g. (using CMx1 terminology), Crack 3-in moratr, but Reg when using the Bren, and Green with the PIAT?

Good question. We do want to model inferior skills when using unfamiliar weapons (or vehicles in this case). My thought was we would just take whatever the skill level is and drop it down a notch. This would not be displayed to the user since that would just be confusing. So a team which organically has a PIAT should operate it at their Experience level, while another unit would have Experience -1 (to put it simply). This could mean that a Crack Squad would be much better with a PIAT than a Green PIAT team, which I think is rather cool and quite realistic.

Dale, no I haven't gone over to the MBT yet. Will try to when I have an already empty stomach

melb_will ,

Does this mean that it may be possible for a defending company commander to have longer CandC lines than a corresponding attacker. To represent time spent laying wires, establishing comms links etc?

We are doing a more realistic simulation of C&C in general, so the short answer is "yes". However... wire communications devices are still a super, duper, bitch and a half to simulate

Steve

[Michael Dorosh]

I will look forward to recreating Trooper Funk of the Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) in his MM winning exploits.

He was a crewman on a Stuart "Kangaroo", or Recce vehicle.

He dismounted from his vehicle, carried a PIAT to a firing position, knocked out a Panther, and later remounted his vehicle. None of which can be done in CMX1.

I heard from one of his comrades at a reunion dinner that these recce vehs had a .50 Browning, a PIAT, and assorted other weapons to assist when they got into trouble.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

quote:

Does this mean that it may be possible for a defending company commander to have longer CandC lines than a corresponding attacker. To represent time spent laying wires, establishing comms links etc?

We are doing a more realistic simulation of C&C in general, so the short answer is "yes". However... wire communications devices are still a super, duper, bitch and a half to simulate

Steve

!!!

I can't wait to see how this will work in the game!!

"We are doing a more realistic simulation of C&C in general, so the short answer is "yes".

However... wire communications devices are still a super, duper, bitch and a half to simulate "

I can't even begin to imagine how incredibly difficult this will be to code and model in the game!

I sure am glad that is not MY JOB!

-tom w

[ March 16, 2005, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[dalem]

Uh oh, new question:

Steve-

Since the intent is to have us be able to man and re-man weapons, is it possible to select the weapon only for inclusion in a scenario?

Say I want to put just a bazooka in a HT, so that later on someone can grab it if necessary, could I do that? Gee whiz, that would be swell.

-dale

[Wartgamer]

Originally posted by dalem:

As far as the U.S. company 1:1 aspects WartyFred76, what other questions do you have? What have we left out do far?

-dale

A Bridge Do Far?

Who we? You are really speaking for anyone but yourself? And dalem, tom is the gee whiz guy here. Get another shtick.

But I digress.

The interesting part, at least to me, is that the actual 1:1 modeling of the whole company can be achieved if the non-line elements are modeled as 'activated units'. They are on map and will only get 'activated' under certain circumstances. The most obvious is the CP being threatened. So players can't abuse them during a scenario unless he is getting stomped.

[dalem]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

The interesting part, at least to me, is that the actual 1:1 modeling of the whole company can be achieved if the non-line elements are modeled as 'activated units'. They are on map and will only get 'activated' under certain circumstances. The most obvious is the CP being threatened. So players can't abuse them during a scenario unless he is getting stomped.

But realistically, how big a map do you think we're talking about to portray a Company rear area (cooks, drivers, etc.) under attack with line units available to defend it?

Maybe I'm suffering from a confusion of scale here. I've always assumed that when I have a company HQ in play, i.e. I'm running the whole company, the 8 guys in the Company HQ "squad" are the bare bones of what needs to be forward directing the battle, and the support elements (buglers and drivers) are even further to the rear.

-dale

[Wartgamer]

dale, go get the jeep and load all this stuff in it..

LMG Section (Weapons Platoon)

Infantry Rifle Company

The following is from a 1944 Fort Benning (Infantry School) student reference text. Among other things, it lists the doctrinal equipment load for the one (yes, one) Jeep and Trailer authorized in the LMG Section (Weapons Platoon) of the Infantry Rifle Company. Remember, there's ONE Jeep in the LMG section and everybody else gets to ride the "LPC" (Leather Personnel Carrier = boots)...

1 x .50 M2 MG

1 x M31 Pedestal Mount

1 x M5 Repair Chest w/Parts for .50

660 Rds .50 Ammunition

2 x M1919A6 .30 LMGs

2 x M5 Repair Chests w/Parts for .30s

16 x Chests of .30 Ammunition (4000 rds)

3 x M9 Bazookas

18 x 2.36" Bazooka Rockets (with 9x M6 carrying bags)

6 x Packboards (and you thought those things were worthless!!)

2 x 15'x15' Camouflage Nets

1 x SCR300 "Walkie-Talkie"

1 x M-1 Gas Alarm

1 x 12 Unit First Aid Kit

3 x AP-50A Recognition Panel Sets

4 x M1942 Asbestos Mitts (for barrel changing... Mmmm, Mmmm)

1 x .45 Auto Cleaning Kit (M1916 Squad Cleaning kit I'm guessing)

1 x Pr M1943 Goggles with Red Lenses

"Approximate weight of load: 1165 lbs".....

PLUS all the crap carried by the driver, the gunner (and whoever else jumped aboard), the vehicle gear (tools etc.)...

Note that the M-3 Tripod is missing. In fact, all of the authorizations checked in this pub that list the M-31 mount do not authorize the M-3 Tripod. That surprised me, but looking at this heaping load there probably was no room left!!!

[Wartgamer]

MOVEMENT OF CP COMMUNICATIONS IN AN ATTACK (Battalion US Army)

Responsibility of Com O.

Wire head runs thru Bn OP, continues thru general location of next CP and OP and keeps abreast of the support Plat of the attacking Co.

Wire head party consists of 1 Sgt and 2 linemen.

Test phone is clipped on. T-spliced wire to install communications in new CP. All these communications move by echelon to new CP.

In a fast moving situation, only one phone and a repeating coil (for TS installation) may be used at the new CP and the switchboard "hop frogged” to the next CP location.

COMMUMICATIONS

The following Com facilities are available:

Radio:

i. SGR 284 by Rag to direct Bns

ii. SCR 300 by Bns to direct Cos

iii. SCR 536 by Cos to direct Plats

Telegraph: T5-5A or B - Bn to Regt.

Telephones: EE8A - 5 in Bn Cp -2 in Staff; 1 in. OP. ,

1 Stf or test phone; 1-test.

Switchboard BD-71; 6 deep switchboard simple xed for 2 tg installations

Messengers –12 - 4 from Bn; 2 from each lettered. Co.

Airplane. Radio visual (panels) drop and pick up map principally used from grand to air.

Visual Signal - lamps, flags, pyrotechnics, panels by prearranged code.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

dale, go get the jeep and load all this stuff in it..

LMG Section (Weapons Platoon)

Infantry Rifle Company

The following is from a 1944 Fort Benning (Infantry School) student reference text. Among other things, it lists the doctrinal equipment load for the one (yes, one) Jeep and Trailer authorized in the LMG Section (Weapons Platoon) of the Infantry Rifle Company. Remember, there's ONE Jeep in the LMG section and everybody else gets to ride the "LPC" (Leather Personnel Carrier = boots)...

1 x .50 M2 MG

1 x M31 Pedestal Mount

1 x M5 Repair Chest w/Parts for .50

660 Rds .50 Ammunition

2 x M1919A6 .30 LMGs

2 x M5 Repair Chests w/Parts for .30s

16 x Chests of .30 Ammunition (4000 rds)

3 x M9 Bazookas

18 x 2.36" Bazooka Rockets (with 9x M6 carrying bags)

6 x Packboards (and you thought those things were worthless!!)

2 x 15'x15' Camouflage Nets

1 x SCR300 "Walkie-Talkie"

1 x M-1 Gas Alarm

1 x 12 Unit First Aid Kit

3 x AP-50A Recognition Panel Sets

4 x M1942 Asbestos Mitts (for barrel changing... Mmmm, Mmmm)

1 x .45 Auto Cleaning Kit (M1916 Squad Cleaning kit I'm guessing)

1 x Pr M1943 Goggles with Red Lenses

"Approximate weight of load: 1165 lbs".....

PLUS all the crap carried by the driver, the gunner (and whoever else jumped aboard), the vehicle gear (tools etc.)...

Note that the M-3 Tripod is missing. In fact, all of the authorizations checked in this pub that list the M-31 mount do not authorize the M-3 Tripod. That surprised me, but looking at this heaping load there probably was no room left!!!

a) that doesn't represent that large a load for a jeep trailer; we still use trailers approximately the same size for our Iltis and I've packed a lot of stuff away in them. This seems like a fair trailer load, but not excessive.

"official" tables or equipment are rarely adhered to; see the Bren Gun Tripod that is supposed to be on every platoon truck in the Canadian or British Army. Guess how often they were used. More to the point, a lot of the stuff here may very well have been dispensed with, certainly cam nets would not be carried in winter, for example.

Do you even know how big most of these items are? The first aid kits seem to imply the small ones that were carried on a soldier's pistol belt. You can carry all 12 in a shoebox.

c) what is the point of this, exactly?

[Wartgamer]

Its about 50 cals Mr Questions. You are very inquisitive fellow Mr. Questions. A congenital condition I presume?

[Wartgamer]

And since Mr. Questions (actually many CW people seem to do that "Do you even know..?" stuff) needs a drawing for everything, I will explain the obvious about the wire.

The Battalion commo wire is going to a Company command post, through it and keeping up with the forward most reserve platoon ahead.

[Wings_SWmud]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

Its about 50 cals Mr Questions. You are very inquisitive fellow Mr. Questions. A congenital condition I presume?

If you have nothing remotely useful or constuctive to say, would it kill you to not post?

[Wartgamer]

I think that anyone that has followed this thread knows that weapons company trailer/jeep info is useful (especially the 50 cal and bazooka). How constructive you need people to be is not my concern. Dorosh's need to try to show his 'military' background in any thread is funny. Its not about how big that stuff is how much it weighs. The guy is a riot. He mentioned the BREN gun tripod also. Hee.

[ March 16, 2005, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Wartgamer ]

[Mammou]

Gamey jeep recon...

:-D

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

I think that anyone that has followed this thread knows that weapons company trailer/jeep info is useful (especially the 50 cal and bazooka).

More faulty conclusions on your part, I am guessing. So the weapons company had a .50 on their official TOE. Doesn't mean

a) it was used

it was used in a ground (ie non-AA) role

c) it was even carried

d) it wasn't deleted a month after the orders were published

I would be more interested in reading good company/battalion accounts of what they actually did with the weapons they had as opposed to reading loading lists.

And your comments about what an overwhelming load this represented for a jeep trailer once again point out that you don't have the ability to interpret what you are reading. **shrugs** I see Steve stopped responding to you pages ago, so keep blabbing, I guess.

dalem - I got your setup this morning, will try and return it by Friday night. I am doing Army stuff Wed and Thu evening after work. Gotta pay them bills, don't you know.