LOS but 0% exposure

[Q]

I've noticed a rare occurence where enemy targets will show 0% exposure, even in open ground. My units won't fire at all at such a target (presumably it's impossible to hurt them). I usually see this at a single spot for a single target.

In one particularly annoying case I setup an MG bunker on the edge of a slope facing across the front line. Sight lines looked good (nice light blue LOS). But when the enemy finally showed, I wound up with 0% exposure across at least 4 tiles - scattered trees, rubble, several pieces of open ground and road.

Anyone know if this is intentionally modelled this way? I'd love to know if there is any way to predict this may happen. I.e. are there certain slope configurations or intervening cover that make this likely.

[stikkypixie]

I don't know, but it might be the way that exposure if shown.

You never get 9.5% exposure, always 10% or 9%.

So 0% exposure might be, that that squad is exposed 0.01%, so your units can see it, but is display as 0%.

Other than that I can see no other logical explanation at the moment.

[securityguard]

usually only happens on sloped conditions.

i think about it as if you can see something but no way hit it. like the top of infantry helmets near a crest, etc

[Redwolf]

Another thing that wierds me out is tanks in LOS and 0% hit probability. Somebody gotta explain that one to me.

[MikeyD]

Yeh, I've been getting that more and more too (or more likely just noticing it more and more). I suppose we could rationalize 0% hit probability with LOS as being equivalent to catching distant movements, shadows, knowing something's out there but not having anything to aim at. Anyone who's ever had a mouse problem in their house would appreciate those circumstances. :cool: (sunglasses represent the blind)

[YankeeDog]

I've noticed this too, also mostly in situations where a unit it *just* over a crest or ridgeline.

CM seems to assume a slight "bending" of LOS over very small elevation differences - i.e., when the enemy is just over the crest. In the abstract, I can see how this might be intended to model situations where brief flashes of movement can be seen over the crest -- a bit of a helmet, a rifle barrel, etc., but it's not really enough to shoot at.

With tanks, Since LOS and LOF are basically the same thing in CM, the 0% may also be intended to model situations where the TC, sitting in the hatch or looking through the coupola viewports can see a target, but the gunsight, which is usually mounted a fair bit lower, can't.

Just guessin' here, tho.

Cheers,

YD

[MikeyD]

Oh! Very nice interpretation!

[junk2drive]

My troops were sneaking down a slope and well below was a mg bunker that started firing on them.

The LOF from the bunker bent up, over the rise, and down to my troops, who were hugging the ground. From level one I could not see the bunker.

So it works both ways.

[Sanok]

Originally posted by junk2drive:

My troops were sneaking down a slope and well below was a mg bunker that started firing on them.

The LOF from the bunker bent up, over the rise, and down to my troops, who were hugging the ground. From level one I could not see the bunker.

So it works both ways.

I've seen things like this and they're very irritating. I once clicked on the unit taking fire and went to view one of the firing unit, which was was downhill. The highlight box around the unit taking fire was actually on the side of the hill, which meant the hill should have totally blocked LOS, which it didn't.

It's also puzzling to me why a pillbox or bunker can fire, then disappear from LOS, leaving the 'lost sight' marker behind, yet units can still trace LOS to the bunker or pillbox location.

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

Originally posted by Sanok:

Obviously it just engaged its cloaking device...

[Ace Pilot]

Originally posted by Sanok:

It's also puzzling to me why a pillbox or bunker can fire, then disappear from LOS, leaving the 'lost sight' marker behind, yet units can still trace LOS to the bunker or pillbox location.

I've always thought that simulated the crew of the bunker taking cover - i.e., you can no longer see them through the firing slit, so you can't fire directly at the crew. It still doesn't explain why you can't see the bunker and try to put a round through the firing slit, though.

[YankeeDog]

Just because you know where a bunker is, and can technically see the spot where it's located, doesn't mean you actually have it sighted.

The CM graphics are a bit misleading -- bunkers are often quite well camouflaged. Often, infantry w/o binoculars would probably know the location of the bunker just by the muzzle flash. Such a sighting would be easy to lose once the bunker stopped firing.

It's one thing to know, "there's a bunker in the treeline next to that tall pine tree," and quite another to actually have the firing slit picked out from among all the shadows and tree branches. The latter is an easy thing to lose track of, especially in the heat of combat.

Cheers,

YD

[Q]

Well, thanks for the input and at least I know I'm not crazy. Or if I am, it's a group psychosis.

My only disappointment was that while placing the bunker showed good quality sight lines, when the shooting started, the MG crew sat on its huge pile of ammo and smoked while enemy troops were pouring through the hillside it was supposed to be covering.

I guess I'll have to experiment with the editor to see if I can get a feel for the terrain configuration that causes this.

[Silvio Manuel]

0% exposure is because troops are positioned behind a wall, and have taken fire and are taking cover. The "wall" in CM is something like 4 ft. high so they are fully protected. I don't think that vehicles get 0% *exposure*, it's just that some units (for example bazookas) might be at the limit of their range (~200 for bazooka/PIAT or 220m for panzerschrecks) so you might have 1 or 0% chance "to hit".

[imported_no_one]

If you guys remember back to the unhittable gun bug,you may remember the 0% exposure rating.It does come from being behind a wall,or just on the back side of some small hill that will bend the LOS line.

I have never seen it with a bunker before,but any time you are targeting,infantry for example,with a tank,and you see 0% exposure,use the MG,not the main gun.With 0% exposure the tank either wont fire at them with the main gun,or it will be almost impossible to get a round near the target.