tracer Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Lou 2000 As far as copy write is concerned, my newphew seen CMBO on "Kazza", so any game can be pirated. So I don't think there will be to many upset people. And as far as a software company even thinking or saying that thier game can't be hacked would only be asking for it to get hacked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
li Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Most people here have bought CMBO already. after playing CMBB, I sold my copy of CMBO! I would not be interested in backtracking into CMBO style of play. Not because of eye candy improvements anyway. It just does not appeal to me after playing CMBB. My future interest in BTS products are CMX2 (or whatever CMBB2..Combat Mission Beyond Borg 2 is called) and perhaps the Afrika Corp "module". BTS can pursue thier marketing goals but perhaps a survey here of what thier customers wants is in order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 BFC's been busy little bees this last month! Almost like they want to sustain some corporate cash-flow or somethin'! For those of you griping about not getting their paws on the revamped CMBO textures, admit it. Once you got it you probably just re-re-remod the game all over again for the fifth or sixth time! You mod sluts are insatiable! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by li: BTS can pursue thier marketing goals but perhaps a survey here of what thier customers wants is in order. Why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Tracer ... I dont have a problem with copy protection being on the game. My work involves testing software applications (telecoms)... and I hate software piracy ! Copy protection wont stop it.... but it does slow down the 'copy kids' who want to swap stuff with their friends. but back to the censorship................. I would however like to get hold of an uncensored copy of CMBB (with or without copy protection)just to get rid of my Waffen-grenadiers. I'm going to get another copy whatever as I have just had my IL-2 Sturmovik CD crap out on me ... I wont replace that .... But I couldnt stand to lose my CMBB :eek: and I doubt CDV would send me a replacement! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Andreas, Good point, why? I guess you mean that BFC doesn't really need anymore input from thier customers here on the forum,(or I may have misunderstood your post) I mean crap, sounds like thier game is starting to make the major bucks,(or I could be wrong) and I think it should it's a good game, but before I sold my business I always kept one thing in mind though, the customers will make you or break you, so don't ever forget about them,(and I'm sure the folks at BFC won't). I always had this in the back of my mind so I ended up with a good early retirement check. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I'm too lazy to plough through all replies. Will it be possible to order these improved versions online or only in shops? And if only in shops, will they also become available in Europe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Tracer. I am not advocating BFC should not listen to their existing customers. Far from it. This however appears to me to be about gaining new customers, so any survey on this board won't tell them anything about that. I just don't see where the conflict is or even could be. I also don't see very much that they can gain about their business plans from this forum, where almost everybody either will already have bought CMBO, or won't bother. AIUI the work on this project will not interfere in the least with CMX2. If BFC manage to generate more income from a game that is already 2.5 years or so old, it will be all the better to support the development of CMX2. This will realise a new income stream for them, it allows them to test the water in US retail with a low risk approach to them, and is therefore a thoroughly good thing as far as I am concerned. I am genuinely puzzled about what else a customer survey could bring out. More money for them means more game for us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Andreas, One more good point, so I misunderstood your post. but one thing I should point out, word of mouth is a real good way to advertise. I had sold a lot of my customers into playing CMBO, they could come into the shop where I had several machines running the game and play there, then they got addicted and I had folks to play agianst so it helped me out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Tracer - no doubt about it. I also think that so far BFC are not showing any signs of wanting to cash in. Hiring Fernando on the back of CMBB's success seems to indicate to me a continued investment in the business. As I said - great for us crackpots. I happily help anyone to part with their bucks to buy the game if it means the next one gets even better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 23, 2003 Author Share Posted April 23, 2003 And we would never do that, Andreas. Cashing in that is, by exploiting the existing customer base to force them to pay two or three times for the same game, like some other companies do and have done in the past. Some traditional marketing folks might call us crazy for not doing that, but we want to continue making wargames in the years to come The Special Edition for retail is a way to attract new customers, those that are simply hard or impossible to attract online, ranging from impulse buyers to those that would never consider surfing the web for wargaming stuff, but might be intrigued to pick up the title from the shelf. This isn't cashing in, just a - we hope - smart business plan It has, however, no effect on what we do here, or how we do it. Retail has been begging us for the past two years to be able to sell CM, so they get their chance. But our heart lies with you wargaming nuts Martin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Originally posted by Moon: But our heart lies with you wargaming nuts Martin You are so deranged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 See, I knew the folks at BFC wouldn't let us down, be cause my guess is they are wargaming nuts to 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 To answer the question on the scenarios... They are all available from the different web sites...mainly are from Boot and Tracks and Der Kessel. I got the authors permissions to put them on the CD. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Why so long a wait for CMBB retail? I'd really like to pick that up in May instead of the 4th quarter Any ideas yet what it will cost? The current cost of CMBB is really the only thing keeping me from purchasing it-that and the added cost of shipping. I'd love to be able to just drop down to my local EB Games and pick up a copy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 Will these two improved games only be available in North America, or can we also find them in stores throughout Europe? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
li Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 I hope this is taken the right way: I would not tell anyone to buy CMBO. I do not think selling CMBO now, as a reflection of BTS' talents, is a good marketing decision. If CMBO/CMBB were marketed as a dual set (saving money on a single manual), then maybe it would be worthwhile because a real state of the art product was being sold (CMBB). This would bring in customers onto a level that is better for the customer and BTS and this (hate saying the word) community. A cynical person might say: 1. They are just rehashing the CMBB engine to make CMAK so as to wring out more bucks from the already addicted.. 2. They are spiffing up some old coot like CMBO and wanting to throw it on the top shelf.. 3. They won't get the real product (CMBB) to the great unwashed masses till the end of the year.. etc... How will this effect future online sales? Maybe I will wait for CMAK to be released in stores instead of buying online. BTS must make a better cut from online sales. In any case, I think pre-existing customers of the orig CMBO/CMBB will change buying habits just as BTS is changing its selling habits. IF it were my marketing decision, I would do the dual box set and release around November (I wouldnt go nuts fixing up CMBO that much). This would hook a greater pool of people (existing addicted plus newly converted) for the CMAK release (probably winter/spring and more than likely available ONLY online). Residual sales of these marketed items would then fill the war chest and allow CM2++ to be a world beater. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghouse Reily Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 It is a business decision to make money!! li i am that cynical person. I think i will wait for the retail verson of CMAK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaylord Focker Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 I think i'll just order CMAK online like i did with the other games, i'm all set with CDV applying backwards german laws to my software. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by li: A cynical person might say: 1. They are just rehashing the CMBB engine to make CMAK so as to wring out more bucks from the already addicted.. 2. They are spiffing up some old coot like CMBO and wanting to throw it on the top shelf.. 3. They won't get the real product (CMBB) to the great unwashed masses till the end of the year.. Li, in response to that cynical person, Id probably respond... 1 - There is a huge amount of work that is going into CMAK. Hundreds of vehicles need to be modelled and textured, as well as the terrain and buildings. This is no small job, as any of the moders out there will tell you. Coding is being done, including many changes from multiturreted tanks to dust. Scenarios need to be created and all of this needs to be tested. Yes, its using the same engine but we feel that it will be more than worth its price, *especially* considering its reduced over previous versions. That being said, we arent holding a gun to anyones head forcing them to buy. 2 - Yes, we are enhancing CMBO in order to sell it off the shelves, *but* dont forget that it is going to be sold at a considerable reduced price. We realise its not our most recent product, and as such arent selling at a new release price. 3 - Yes, but many people, especially those that are purchasing off the shelves, dont even know Russia and Germany were at war, hehe. To not offer CMBO which includes some of the most well know battles in history would be a silly move for us indeed. If they like CMBO, then they will purchase CMBB later in the year. I do appreciate the comments Li and I actually do understand where you are coming from, but Im just not too sure that they are all that fair once you consider this somewhat from the perspectives Ive mentioned above A combo box isnt something that would work for many reasons, not the least including that CMBB is currently our most recent product, and to offer it as a bundle would bring the shelf price up to a point where the average customer wouldnt even pick it up to see what it is. And yes Doghouse, this is a business descision to make money. I dont know what else to tell you, hehe, we are a business and to stay that way we need to make money . If we attempted to stay in buisness without making money, we would be a charity, and one that wouldnt be around for long, either. To be fair though, we arent out to rip anyone off here. We are simply selling one of our older product at a reduced price, like just about every other games company out there does at some point. People can choose to buy or not based on the dozens of reviews out there for CMBO, there is no decseption here. Most people are happy to be able to pick up older titles at a great price which they have missed in the past. Dan [ April 23, 2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x13th Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Ok, so you are going to sell CMBO and CMBB for $30 and include a whole bunch of new stuff. Great. Presently you sell it at $65 for the two, and $45 for CMBB alone. Not so great anymore. So, for those of us who purchased the game from you at the higher price, that is over twice the "new" retail price, can you do something to get us those special features, improved graphics and so forth? Just wondering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNoobie Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by x13th: Ok, so you are going to sell CMBO and CMBB for $30 and include a whole bunch of new stuff. Great. Presently you sell it at $65 for the two, and $45 for CMBB alone. Not so great anymore. So, for those of us who purchased the game from you at the higher price, that is over twice the "new" retail price, can you do something to get us those special features, improved graphics and so forth? Just wondering. dont forget the shipping and handling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 x13th, Im not sure what price CMBB will be when it hits the shelves, thats not my department. Im not saying it will be a budget release and CMBO was. In all honesty, I dont know Just in case it hasnt been mentioned anywhere guys...if you own CMBB you already have 95% of the enhanced sound and graphics available in this new version of CMBO as we used these textures for the most part. Other than those, all of the included mods are avialable for download from the net. The only completely new graphics are about 4 new small buildings I did. Chances are I can upload these to one of the mod sites, if you guys really would like them. To be honest, youll probably just mod them anyways Dan [ April 23, 2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x13th Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Sorry I just re-read and realized that it is $30 for each? thus $60 vrs $65. Better but still not great. I realize that when new versions of a game come along many people simply step up and re-purchase. If you had said that CMBO now on CMBB engin with new graphics, etc. no problem, I can see the "newness" of the game. Simply saying that we need to re-purchase to obtain a better looking version of a game I already paid for at a lesser cost than I paid. It just irks me. What can I say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x13th Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Wow you post fast! Sorry I did not read that I already had 95% of the graphics etc. My impression was that it was "really" revamped. Well then I will just shut up now and get back to my game 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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