KV-I Bitchfest

[BulletRat]

Ok I've had enough.

That's the 4th time in 4 battles I've had my arse handed to me because of one goodam reason - the insistence of early war russkie players to buy this monstrosity despite its 80% rarity factor.

To all you russkie players whom I now despise: 80% rarity means something boys and girls, it means I shouldn't have to face it 80% of the time! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Take my last battle (Sorry Londoner you set me off), 1000 point attack, I'm attacking as Axis in August '41 - I buy:

2x 150mm guns

1x Pioneer platoon (motorised)

2x 251/1 HTs for towing the guns

1x Platoon of 5 Panzer 38(t)Es

1x Coy. of motorised rifles

3x 81mm Arty spotters

1x 12.7mm Anti-tank rifle (had to fill up the last few points available)

The map was "moderately treed" with shallow hills - no biggie, a bit open for my liking but managable.

First turn comes up and what do I see, One sodding KV-I perched atop the highest rise on the map, I could almost hear the ****ing thing laugh at me "Har Har, your 37mm pop-guns can't do **** to me, I'll just sit here with my 60-100mm armour and pop off anything that comes into view".

And that's exactly what it did.

(Before some of you wisearses jibe me for not killing it with my pioneer squads let me assure you there was NO FRIGGIN WAY to get em close enough to kill it - the hill it was on happened to be bald as an egg and well covered by MGs.)

It seems as though a lot of Russian players buy the KV-I early war as "insurance" - "Hey unless Mr.axis over there buys an 88 (which he won't coz hes ATTACKING) I've as good as won."

Can't you guys buy a platoon of BT-5s/T-34s instead? More realistic, more fun, and the axis player at least has some chance of winning. With a KV-I there is virtually nothing affordable in the axis tank armoury that will scratch it.

I'll finish up by saying that I will not play anyone who buys a KV-I in a sub-1000 point battle prior to 1942.

I like to play axis, I like to play early war, but I also like to have a chance of winning - and after all, a win is more satisfying when you actually have to work for it.

[/bitchfest]

[Andreas]

Don't know about your copy, but in mine the 1940 KV1 is only at 30% rarity (AG South June 1941). Which, incidentally, is less than the rarity for the German sIG33 you bought two (IOW a regiment's worth) of.

[BulletRat]

Maybe. Difference is that a sIG33 is quite killable.

[Aaron]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Don't know about your copy, but in mine the 1940 KV1 is only at 30% rarity (AG South June 1941). Which, incidentally, is less than the rarity for the German sIG33 you bought two (IOW a regiment's worth) of.

It makes me wonder about how the rarity factors are calculated. There were certainly more 150mm howitzers than KV1s.

Aaron

[drbassie]

All I can say is make that a rule when you start the game. Otherwise, you should expect to see a KV-1.

Same thing w/ Axis in '43-'44 w/ expecting maybe a Tiger.

Predetermined rules will avoid a bitchfest later on

[offtaskagain]

Originally posted by Aaron:

There were certainly more 150mm howitzers than KV1s.

Aaron

I highly doubt that. He bought 2 of the L/11 regimental guns, not sFH 18s. Those guns werent the most common things around.

[Stacheldraht]

Consider letting the computer pick forces for both sides, using standard rarity.

[SgtMuhammed]

I do that when I play the AI. You get some really interesting force mixes, not to mention the Random setting seems to love 1941.

[MrNoobie]

Originally posted by sGTGoody:

I do that when I play the AI. You get some really interesting force mixes, not to mention the Random setting seems to love 1941.

dont forget the green or conscript troops

[aka_tom_w]

try this

ONLY play pre-built scenario's against folks you trust.

The problem exists you think "buying" forces is a reasonable way to play CMBB.

the entire concept of "buying" you own forces is GAMEY and everything that follows thereafter can therefore be considered equally gamey.

So what your saying is that it is GAMEY to buy KV1's :confused: ?

is that correct?

-tom w

[Zimorodok]

I only play against the AI, and it does that to me all the time. :mad: I've learned to hide all my troops, even when attacking, with only a platoon and some hunters out to scout for KV's and other beasties before I start the advance. (you want to know what else sucks? Getting only infantry and trying to attack a pair of OT-134's... :eek: )

So, how do I attack? If I've got some armor (usually a few pz 38(t) and maybe a shorty stug or PZ III) I use them against machine gun nests and pillboxes and try and steer them as far away from any known enemy armor units as I can. If I can reduce the infantry obstacles, like MG's, I can get my troops up next to the offending armor units and close attack them.

I'm no Guderian, until I can start buying KT's late in 1944, nearly 70% of my armor kills are by infantry. :cool:

Come to think of it, I'm a horrible leader, I often kill all the enemy tanks and infantry...but I usually kill off most of my troops as well.

Zimorodok

p.s. I got a the other day...I was playing a pure armor QB and got Sturmtigers for only +5%!!!! Yeah I bought one, and yeah, it didn't kill anything. But is sure did scare the bejeesus out of the company of IS-2's the AI had...I never saw 4 tanks hit the reverse so hard in my life. :cool: I actually had to go take my other tank (yes, I only got 2 tanks, but the other was a Tiger I) and hunt them all down, they refused to come out.

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

try this

ONLY play pre-built scenario's against folks you trust.

The problem exists you think "buying" forces is a reasonable way to play CMBB.

the entire concept of "buying" you own forces is GAMEY and everything that follows thereafter can therefore be considered equally gamey.

So what your saying is that it is GAMEY to buy KV1's :confused: ?

is that correct?

-tom w

I like playing pre-built scenarios, too. It eliminates the whole "gamey-buying" problem and you get better maps, as well. Then, if something goes wrong, you can bitch about the scenario design, not your opponent.

But there's a simple solution to the KV-1 problem--set a limit on rarity percentage: e.g., neither side can pick anything that has a higher than 20% rarity value. I don't play a lot of QB's, but I understand that that's a common rule among QB players.

[Robert Isenberg]

Ok lets take a look at what you got

I see 3x81mm mortar spotters

just smoke his BUTT he will either leave the hill to get a shot at some thing or wait for it to go away and you only need 1 of them to screw him up

while under smoke you move your tanks closer to some cover take on any infantry that is not under any smoke

advance your infantry set them up so that when the smoke clears they can then attack

repeat as nessessary until you can walk your infantry up to his KV-1 and close assault it

the rarity cost is what extra he has to pay to get that vehicle

so your job is to deny him the proper use of it

if it can't shoot at you then you are doing your job whether you kill it or not

in a 1000pt battle he is not going to have very many

if he is going to sit on the high spot then make it useless to him

Smoke allows you to temperarly change the terrain

Originally posted by BulletRat:

Take my last battle (Sorry Londoner you set me off), 1000 point attack, I'm attacking as Axis in August '41 - I buy:

2x 150mm guns

1x Pioneer platoon (motorised)

2x 251/1 HTs for towing the guns

1x Platoon of 5 Panzer 38(t)Es

1x Coy. of motorised rifles

3x 81mm Arty spotters

1x 12.7mm Anti-tank rifle (had to fill up the last few points available)

The map was "moderately treed" with shallow hills - no biggie, a bit open for my liking but managable.

First turn comes up and what do I see, One sodding KV-I perched atop the highest rise on the map, I could almost hear the ****ing thing laugh at me "Har Har, your 37mm pop-guns can't do **** to me, I'll just sit here with my 60-100mm armour and pop off anything that comes into view".

And that's exactly what it did.

(Before some of you wisearses jibe me for not killing it with my pioneer squads let me assure you there was NO FRIGGIN WAY to get em close enough to kill it - the hill it was on happened to be bald as an egg and well covered by MGs.)

It seems as though a lot of Russian players buy the KV-I early war as "insurance" - "Hey unless Mr.axis over there buys an 88 (which he won't coz hes ATTACKING) I've as good as won."

Can't you guys buy a platoon of BT-5s/T-34s instead? More realistic, more fun, and the axis player at least has some chance of winning. With a KV-I there is virtually nothing affordable in the axis tank armoury that will scratch it.

I'll finish up by saying that I will not play anyone who buys a KV-I in a sub-1000 point battle prior to 1942.

I like to play axis, I like to play early war, but I also like to have a chance of winning - and after all, a win is more satisfying when you actually have to work for it.

[/bitchfest]

[jbertles]

I personally don't see anything wrong with Russian players getting and using KV-Is. I do it, the AI does it, and my opponents have done the same. Sure, it's rough, but it does reflect the shock that Germans got when they first faced the KV (and T-34).

So you have to scramble to find a work-around.

KVs are vulnerable to side attacks by 50mm PaK38s if you can find a way to get a shot. PaKs are relatively fast even w/o ht or trucks towing them.

And of course KVs are also vulnerable to captured 76.2 ATs, though they are expensive and slow.

Finally, suppress the KVs! Use your ATR to keep the KV buttoned up (ATRs are really hard to see in woods) and just pepper it. It won't hurt the KV, but the plink-plink will keep the hatch closed so you can close in with your brave Pioneers and slink around for side shots with your AT guns.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Aaron:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas:

Don't know about your copy, but in mine the 1940 KV1 is only at 30% rarity (AG South June 1941). Which, incidentally, is less than the rarity for the German sIG33 you bought two (IOW a regiment's worth) of.

It makes me wonder about how the rarity factors are calculated. There were certainly more 150mm howitzers than KV1s.

Aaron </font>

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Andreas:

Two per infantry regiment of the L/11 guns, which probably makes it about even, with an edge for the KV1 (there were ~1,300 or so T34 and KV1 when the Germans attacked, according to Glantz).

And how many were deployed in frontline troops?

The vast majority of KV tanks (in June '41) were assigned to divisions and brigades held in reserve behind Moscow.

The German infantry divisions were up front.

I'd say there were far more infantry guns within two miles of the front than there were KV tanks.

Most of the KV tanks produced after the invasion were sent directly to frontline troops.

Cheers

Olle

[Tigrii]

To all the people who say things like "attack it with pioneers" and "get flank shots with light guns" it is almost impossible against an opponent of equal skill. The presence of a KV means the Axis player must be a lot better than the Allied to have any chance of KOing it. Any player with brains will guard the heck out of his biggest, most valuable investment, and open ground/MGs and the KV itself with HE, MGs, and canoster will stop cold any clever pio charge. As for towing guns around it's flanks, I'd like to play the player who can't kill an unsupported, blind HT or truck.

[von Lucke]

As someone else already pointed out, agree to the ground rules before you start the game.

[General Tacticus]

What's that in the sky? Right there - plummetting towards that KV1 on the hilltop....why, it's a stuka!

[Flipper]

I had a kv-1 take out a cz38t it exploded and get this the three armored cars left and right of were knocked out too :eek: FOUR KILLS WITH ONE SHOT! thats a new record for me,I did manage to disable it with a hunter killer team later on :cool:

[Bruceov]

Tnsist on a 30% force handicap for the Russians. Use antitank guns offensively. Buy some heavy art and target the hill with your planned fire or ban the kV from the game

[Esper]

That is sort of the reason I have been apprehensive about playing against someone else, I like playing and sticking to realistic/historic choices.. and being somewhat new.. Am unsure who the "anything goes" people are and who are of the more historical slant... It would be alot easier if I hadn't forgot the password for my router so I could get my IP, then I could host. maybe I can dig up the manual to find out how to reset it.

[Priest]

Originally posted by BulletRat:

Ok I've had enough.

That's the 4th time in 4 battles I've had my arse handed to me because of one goodam reason - the insistence of early war russkie players to buy this monstrosity despite its 80% rarity factor.

To all you russkie players whom I now despise: 80% rarity means something boys and girls, it means I shouldn't have to face it 80% of the time! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Take my last battle (Sorry Londoner you set me off), 1000 point attack, I'm attacking as Axis in August '41 - I buy:

2x 150mm guns

1x Pioneer platoon (motorised)

2x 251/1 HTs for towing the guns

1x Platoon of 5 Panzer 38(t)Es

1x Coy. of motorised rifles

3x 81mm Arty spotters

1x 12.7mm Anti-tank rifle (had to fill up the last few points available)

The map was "moderately treed" with shallow hills - no biggie, a bit open for my liking but managable.

First turn comes up and what do I see, One sodding KV-I perched atop the highest rise on the map, I could almost hear the ****ing thing laugh at me "Har Har, your 37mm pop-guns can't do **** to me, I'll just sit here with my 60-100mm armour and pop off anything that comes into view".

And that's exactly what it did.

(Before some of you wisearses jibe me for not killing it with my pioneer squads let me assure you there was NO FRIGGIN WAY to get em close enough to kill it - the hill it was on happened to be bald as an egg and well covered by MGs.)

It seems as though a lot of Russian players buy the KV-I early war as "insurance" - "Hey unless Mr.axis over there buys an 88 (which he won't coz hes ATTACKING) I've as good as won."

Can't you guys buy a platoon of BT-5s/T-34s instead? More realistic, more fun, and the axis player at least has some chance of winning. With a KV-I there is virtually nothing affordable in the axis tank armoury that will scratch it.

I'll finish up by saying that I will not play anyone who buys a KV-I in a sub-1000 point battle prior to 1942.

I like to play axis, I like to play early war, but I also like to have a chance of winning - and after all, a win is more satisfying when you actually have to work for it.

[/bitchfest]

So let me get this straight, you are loaded up to kill some infantry and then pissed because someone shows up with a tank? You have 5 blinkin Panzers to his 1 KV1. HELLO! Sorry if this comes off wrong but that is just sad. You like many other people who complain about complete non-issues do so because your grand "scheme" has not worked.

Basically you have the most unrealistic of the two unit choices, POWER PLAYED to the max it seems to kill infantry. I mean comon you complain because someone buys a KVI you bring to uber infantry bang bang guns that have already been described as rare and you complain about the other guy?????

Get over it already, you lost, to most likely a better player not his/her psuedo gamey unit choice.

[GreenGriffon]

Originally posted by Esper:

It would be alot easier if I hadn't forgot the password for my router so I could get my IP, then I could host. maybe I can dig up the manual to find out how to reset it.

Try this:

http://www.whatismyip.com/

[Warmaker]

I personally don't have a problem with anyone buying the rare, high cost stuff. You pay for it after all.

Just as I like the Big Cats in late war settings I do remember that the platoon of regular Panther G's cost quite a bundle.

Avoid further problems in your future games by setting ground rules beforehand.