What is a Fusilier?

[Gian]

I see that a German Fusilier Company or Battalion are more expensive that Panzer Grenadiers.

What does Fusilier mean?

Thanks

Gian

[pakfan]

The word is derived from the french word 'fusil' -> rifle. It's an oldfashioned form of 'rifleman'.

[reinald@berlin.com]

Füsiliere is one of the German IDs special-task bataillons. The F. mission is recon.

[Warmaker]

You know, I've been playing since CMBO and I've always wondered what Fusilier meant. Thanks.

[YankeeDog]

Just to make things more confusing, in addition to the Divisional Fusilier Battalions, whose mission was indeed recon, there was also a Fusilier Regiment Type, which was a specific Regimental TOE. This was more or less a normal line Regiment, and not neccessarily intended specifically for recon - you don't do recon with a whole Regiment. . .

Cheers,

YD

[Wubbits]

fusilier (noun) -

1. (formerly) a British infantryman armed with a light flintlock musket

Got that out of a dictionary. Napolionic era id say.

Wubbits.

[Michael Dorosh]

The correct German spelling is Füsilier - it is a purely honorific term. As pointed out, it was used to apply to a couple of different types of German light infantry units. And yes, it is an antique title that originally applied to a soldier armed with a fusil.

As an exception, the Grossdeutschland Division used the term to describe one of its two motorized infantry regiments. To distinguish them, one was named Grenadier Regiment Grossdeutschland, the other Füsilier Regiment Grossdeutschland. They were equipped identically and performed identical roles on the battlefield.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

[snips]

As an exception, the Grossdeutschland Division used the term to describe one of its two motorized infantry regiments. To distinguish them, one was named Grenadier Regiment Grossdeutschland, the other Füsilier Regiment Grossdeutschland. They were equipped identically and performed identical roles on the battlefield.

...and eventually, the term "grenadier" was applied honorifically to German infantry of almost any kind.

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times, when an infantry battalion or regiment would have a grenadier and a fusilier company, collectively known as "flank companies". A British battalion, for example, had 8 line companies, 1 grenadier and 1 fusilier company. The main functional difference was that the flank companies were trained for open-order fighting, and would typically be told off as skirmishers to cover the front of the main body. Later, as close-order formations vanished from the battlefield and practically everyone fought in skirmish lines of varying thickness, the functional disctinction naturally faded away.

All the best,

John.

[Firefly]

Actually, John, the grenadier company of a British line regiment would have been the shock troops and tended to consist of bigger than average men, the light company would initially deploy in front of the other companies in skirmish formation and lay down harrassing fire, withdrawing into the line when things got too heavy. Riflemen and Fusiliers still exist in the British Army, they're the private soldier in Rifles and Fusilier regiments.

All of this has absolutley nothing to do with CMBB of course .

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times...

Although I can't give a definite date, I'd bet that it goes back farther than that, to at least say, the time of Frederick the Great though I do not credit him with coining the term.

Michael

[Amedeo]

As it was said in another thread the term 'fusilier' simply meant "soldier armed with a flintlock" (notice that fusil in french, while it's nowdays used to mean 'rifle', originally was referring only at the flint and has no connection whatsoever to the status of the bore, as in the english word 'rifle', the term was applied to smoothbore weapons).

During the late XVIII and early XIX century the terms lost its original meaning (all soldiers were normally equipped with flintlock weapons) and became a distictive term whose exact identification depended on the army. Thus in the french army 'fusilers' were the ordinary line infantry soldiers, in the Russia Army they were the centre companies of grenadier battalions, in Prussian service the Fuesiliere were originally a variant of musketeers and then became specialized light infantry etc.

Regards,

Amedeo

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times...

Long before Napoleonic times. Before, even, Marlbourgh. Grenadiers were always assault troops. In their earliest form the carried... wait for it... grenades. Fusiliers carried a Fusil (light musket) and their original purpose was defense of the artillerists (civilians before the age of Frederick). By the time of Frederick the Great, Fusiliers were basically another form of line infantry. They became light infantry before the rise of Napoleon. Grenadiers were shock infantry until Hitler devalued the term

[The Vyrdolak]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt:

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times...

Long before Napoleonic times. Before, even, Marlbourgh. Grenadiers were always assault troops. In their earliest form the carried... wait for it... grenades. </font>

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Zaraath:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt:

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times...

Long before Napoleonic times. Before, even, Marlbourgh. Grenadiers were always assault troops. In their earliest form the carried... wait for it... grenades. </font>

[Joe Shaw]

Somewhat different terminology in the French Armies of Napoleon.

Armies of the Napoleonic Era by Otto von Pivka: The first company in the column was the grenadier company and it was followed by the four centre or fusilier companies. In the advance toward the enemy the column was preceded by the Voltigeur company well ahead of it and in extended, or skirmishing order.

Joe

[Joe Shaw]

Originally posted by gibsonm:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Zaraath:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John D Salt:

Both honorifics hark back to Napoleonic times...

Long before Napoleonic times. Before, even, Marlbourgh. Grenadiers were always assault troops. In their earliest form the carried... wait for it... grenades. </font>

[**YK2**]

Well, well, would you credit it...

I knew what a fusilier was...

[Amedeo]

The british grenadiers switched to bearskin caps in 1768. That bearskin was more similar to the Austrian pattern than to the current one.

In fact there's no specific trend that can be established. Spain, for example, changed from bearskins to mitre caps in 1800 and Prussia abolished the mitre after the death of Frederick the Great to return to a characteristic headgear for the grenadiers in 1797 that was not a mitre neither a bearskin cap. Subsequent evolutions were different for each army. It's difficult to establish a pattern without allowing for many exceptions.

Regards,

Amedeo

[Amedeo]

Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

The story I heard was that they were granted the bearskins as a tribute for their defeat of the French Grenadiers at Waterloo. The French Old Guard, of course, sported the bearskins at that time.

This story is a hoax. Bearskin caps were already in use for british grenadiers (and fusiliers too!) at the time, albeit it was a full dress item and not a field uniform headgear.

IIRC after the Waterloo victory the First Regiment of Foot Guards received the title 'Grenadier Guards', thus also the centre companies were to be considered grenadiers and not only the right wing élite companies.

Bye,

Amedeo

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Joe Shaw:

The story I heard was that they were granted the bearskins as a tribute for their defeat of the French Grenadiers at Waterloo. The French Old Guard, of course, sported the bearskins at that time.

Joe [/QB]

You're partly right Joe, they received the honourific title Grenadier Guards for the action against the Grenadiers of the Imperial Guard not because they were Grenadiers. Prior to that they were 'The King's Regiment of Guards' followed by 'The First Regiment of Foot Guards'

Official Grenadier Guards Website

[ August 09, 2003, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Firefly ]

[Michael Dorosh]

Hitler's use of the Grenadier honorific - as quite rightly described by John D. Salt - was a specific reference to the armies of Frederick the Great. Whether or not grenadiers existed before that, Hitler specifically wanted to invoke Fredericks' memory. Therefore, in Nov 1942 or thereabouts, all Infanterie Regimenter became Grenadier Regimenter, and the rank titles Schütze (Rifleman) and Oberschütze were replaced with Grenadier and Obergrenadier. Armoured infantry units (Schützen Regimenter) became Panzergrenadier Regimenter.

Hence also the Volksgrenadiers later.

I honestly don't know if there was a specific connotation intended for the füsilier honorific or not, though as pointed out, the term goes back a long ways.

Limited use of the honorific "Musketier" was also used in the German Army in WW II.

[Screeny]

OK OK OK hold that train and thought for a second.....Napoleon? Guards ? flanking companies? he I'm just getting a grasp of WW2 tactics, strategies, doctrines equipment, men OoB etcetcetc....so does any one knows a good book on all of this but then of the Napoleonic Era?? There are many books about Napie but I don't want to end up with an Biograpy descriping his breakfast ritual . So A good readable yet thorough book on the basic principle, tactics, strategies, unit types, doctrines, ToE, OoB's etcetcetc of that era for the beginner...

Thanx in Advance

[Firefly]

David Chandler's The Campaigns of Napoleon tends to be the standard work referred to by most people such as wargames designers. I've not read it myself, but it's been on my 'must read' list for a long time .

[Amedeo]

As a general introduction to the military aspects of the period I may suggest:

P. J. Haythornthwaite - The Napoleonic sourcebook

For a detailed look at the tactics, weapons and battlefield practice of the period, two interesting books might be:

G. Nafziger - Imperial Bayonets

B. Nosworthy - Battle tactics of Napoleon and his enemies

Once you have a general knowledge of the period you can go on with the zillion books detailing your army of choice

Regards,

Amedeo

[HeinzBaby]

'The Illustrated Napoleon' By David Chandler is a good old chestnut, light but informative reading when I'm feeling Napoleonic