Elfenwolf Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 First, english are not my native. I create large battles and campains (50-60 rounds) but when I play it very soon it comes to the point my force have bingo ammo. Special the Infantrie are useless after a fight couse I need all ammo they have. On this point I wish I had a Supply truck, so my forces can return to a save point few meters behind the HKL and resupply theyr ammo.(Offcourse tanks too.) This would be WWII historical, axis and allies use trucks or mechanized vehicles for short resupply in a battle. I dont know how heavy this are to reprogramming, may a patch for the current games and a feature for the coming games. PS:Combat Mission are the best strat.wargame that I ever played. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Try shorter battles / reinforcements or better still, Operations - These have in the design parameters auto resupply between battles. Welcome to the boards by the way [ August 22, 2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Lee Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 the key is not to engage at long ranges and use advance,assult commands with infantry support. Try this, i know easier said than done but i never run out of ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Keeping a reserve of fresh troops is also a good practice. Then they can be thrown into the battle to swing the balance at a critical juncture. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Schultz Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 If you are designing your own scenarios/ops, and you like longer battles, then make sure you use the 'edit' function at the purchase screen. Most units can have their ammo count bumped up. Be aware though, that any support weapon that has its ammo increased will lose that extra the first time it moves. As stated above, putting in reinforcements at regular intervals during the battle will help this as well. If it is a very large scenario, try to give reinforcements transport so they may get to the action in good time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfenwolf Posted August 23, 2003 Author Share Posted August 23, 2003 Thanks all for the hints! My point was more to see this truck on field would may give it a realistic thouch. Increaing ammo for Inf. my soldates says they are not willing to carry more when they are in battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Originally posted by Elfenwolf: Thanks all for the hints! My point was more to see this truck on field would may give it a realistic thouch. Increaing ammo for Inf. my soldates says they are not willing to carry more when they are in battle. Not very realistic, though. Think of it this way -- with bullets and shells flying about, would you volunteer to be the guy who drives the truck full of high explosives and ammunition to a point literally on the front lines during battle? Me neither. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 23, 2003 Share Posted August 23, 2003 Originally posted by MrSpkr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elfenwolf: Thanks all for the hints! My point was more to see this truck on field would may give it a realistic thouch. Increaing ammo for Inf. my soldates says they are not willing to carry more when they are in battle. Not very realistic, though. Think of it this way -- with bullets and shells flying about, would you volunteer to be the guy who drives the truck full of high explosives and ammunition to a point literally on the front lines during battle? Me neither. Steve </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eichenbaum Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Most trucks in CM have the urge to drive away from enemy fire. If these are your supply trucks you sure get a problem. 2 hours is a maximum for 1 battle in the editor. I don't know if its long enough for a full supply on your whole frontline. How long does it take to supply a tank ? The idea is nice though. Eichenbaum 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 how bout a cpl upham character running around with the reserve ammo? lol.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Er...ammo trucks on the battlefield shuttling stuff around with bullets flying is pretty unrealistic to my knowledge of WW2. Sudden Strike is the worst place to get your history, guys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl60 Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 From what I can remember from the stuff I read,they only resupplied during lulls in the fighting. And if the fighting started up again while units were resupplying,then the resupplying units got the hell out of the combat zone...fast. Running out of ammo was not exactly a rare occurance for units in WW2. They just hoped the other side would run out of ammo first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 As for the editor, when making operations, be sure to fudge with the supplies for each side to your taste. Give the Russians ample supplies and the Germans a lower amount. It adds spice for any late war German defender. You'll also find that even on max. the SMG infantry don't hold too much ammo compared to rifle infantry, esp. when you take into account the ROF. Oh, and don't rely too much on SMG heavy infantry. They go through their ammunition in 2 turns MAX! Green/Conscript SMG infantry? Watch the bullets impact anywhere but on the enemy! [ August 24, 2003, 03:38 AM: Message edited by: Warmaker ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Originally posted by eichenbaum: Most trucks in CM have the urge to drive away from enemy fire. If these are your supply trucks you sure get a problem. 2 hours is a maximum for 1 battle in the editor. I don't know if its long enough for a full supply on your whole frontline. How long does it take to supply a tank ? The idea is nice though. Eichenbaum For the present army's on company level there are roughly 2 way's. One is a logistic street where a company drive through and pick up food/ fuel and ammo but there is also repair capacity, it will coast about 60 minutes to resupply a company. The second way is that they use logistic points and dump ammo/ fuel and food at platoon level. The platoon commander orders (during a lull in the battle) individual vehicles to pick up that supply. That will coast about 10 to 15 minutes per vehicle. Of course in WW 2 the communications were far less than today and there was little flexibility when the combat started. But it is know that ammo dumps were used behind fighting positions. These dumps were arrange before the start of the battle. Originally posted by zukkov: how bout a cpl upham character running around with the reserve ammo? lol.. This is where it's all about. If a commander foresees that he will run out of ammo during a battle he will make a plan to prevent that it will happen. De last battle in the movie of Saving Private Ryan was a perfect example of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 I can understand a Bren carrier taking ammo supplies to the frontline. But most WW2 armies didn't have a Hummvee per footsoldier, the US and the Brits were the only ones blessed with plenty of automobiles. So should we have horse wagons carrying ammo? Horses would be a tad difficult to take to where the fighting happens (unless specially trained, but the majority were just confiscated from civilians). Platoons detaching a team to carry supplies to them from the back would therefore be the most realistic way. But this would require detaching some men (the more you send, the more you receive), enough time (depending on how far away the company has stored their ammo reserve, a bigger problem when attacking) and a safe route. Those men could get lost and not come back during the whole battle or even die. As you see, it's not very easy unless you do it the Mickey Mouse way. As such a secondary feature that's not out of the question, of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Too bad I cant upload or scan any pictures . The Germans had special armored vehicles for that purpose. In Spielbergers Tiger book ,there is a clear picture of a 251 halftrack ammocarrier delivering shells to a Tiger. So it should be possible. actually its no 251 but named hanomag 252 ammocarrier. And now I am thinking of it,can we have the 250/11(2,8mm gun) and the 251/5 and 6(engineer assault vehicle) too? [ August 24, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Stoffel ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Yes it is possible but the question is was it done enough to make it a realistic feature in the game. The answer in that case is no. Yes defensive units stockpiled extra ammo but this is already factored into the game which is why you lose your extra rounds when you move. Even with extra rounds there is still no imediate resupply. Soldiers didn't carry a ton of extra magazines so extra rounds came in bandoleers and boxes and had to be put into mags and clips. This takes time, several minutes depending on how much you are trying to load, and is made even more difficult by weather, light, enemy fire, etc. For tanks it is even worst. Tanks don't have big barn doors so you can shove a whole new rack of rounds into the turret and drive away. Rounds were loaded by hand one at a time through the loader's or commander's hatch. This takes a lot of time, especially since many of the rounds were stored in various parts of the tank. Fueling can also take a lot of time if you don't have a fuel bowser and are forced to use jerrycans and a funnel as was very likely at the front. Supply units made it a point to be long gone when the fighting started because they were usually the highest priority and least survivable units on the battlefield. The use of armored vehicles for supply wasn't to allow them to run along side tanks during the big push tossing them more rounds every time they fired. They were actually used more for their tracks than their armor. The tracks allowed them to go where the tanks could go. Since most countries couldn't really afford to crank out thousands of tracked supply vehicles but were already cranking out thousands of halftracks and other AFVs those are what they used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzertruppe Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Even in a 50 turn game it just would not seem logical to try to reload an AFV in battle. This "reloading" is common in RTS games like Sudden Strike, Blitzkrieg",ect...but in a tactical game like CM is not logical or realistic. Just my 2 cents! Bill 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfenwolf Posted August 24, 2003 Author Share Posted August 24, 2003 Sorry i dident know that I ride a old horse.I dont wanna play Sudden strike the idea was not to move the trucks direct to the frontline. The tank/inf and the supply vehicle are very vulnerable in this time. They will standing in cover behind the HKL and tanks and inf. must move to the trucks. The germans use the Raupenschlepper Ost and modified Skfz (Stoffel says the 251) for this to pending beetween the depot and the frontlines. It was just a idea and I see plus and contra.Thanks all for the respond! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Originally posted by Stoffel: And now I am thinking of it,can we have the 250/11(2,8mm gun) and the 251/5 and 6(engineer assault vehicle) too? What would the /5 and /6 do? Would they not just be carriers for engineers, carrying the stores? What would be the great difference between the 250/11 and the 251/11? Replenishing ammo under fire was done, but probably was not the chosen method to do so. There is an instance in the book on Stug Brigade 276 mentioning it. But it can well be mentioned because it was so unusual? It exposes crew to enemy fire, so it is quite risky. The RSO was unarmoured BTW, so risking it on the battlefield would be a very stupid move. I would tend to agree with sgt.goody on the reason for the use of tracked/half-tracked vehicles for supply being that they could go places. The armour may just have been an added bonus (or not, since it reduces payload). Would be interested if someone has more info on this though. I never looked at this closely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas Replenishing ammo under fire was done, but probably was not the chosen method to do so. There is an instance in the book on Stug Brigade 276 mentioning it. But it can well be mentioned because it was so unusual? It exposes crew to enemy fire, so it is quite risky.And how would you describe a Stum Tiger?? It is also modelled. I don't see the problem, when they put it in the game and we can choose if we want it or not. And if you play a ladder or tourney they always have some rules to keep the ladder or tourney attractive. [ August 24, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Jaws ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Jaws: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas Replenishing ammo under fire was done, but probably was not the chosen method to do so. There is an instance in the book on Stug Brigade 276 mentioning it. But it can well be mentioned because it was so unusual? It exposes crew to enemy fire, so it is quite risky.And how would you describe a Stum Tiger?? It is also modelled. I don't see the problem, when they put it in the game and we can choose if we want it or not. And if you play a ladder or tourney they always have some rules to keep the ladder or tourney attractive. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: I do sometimes wish that people would stop and think a moment before posting. The suggestion/request that started off this thread would involve not only including a new unit, but a whole series of mechanisms in the code to make it work, which must not only be written, but debugged, playtested, and then debugged again. Do you suggest that this work shall go on in an alternate universe where a second team of BFC programmers can work on this and all the other idle suggestions that we can come up with at their leisure? Yes. What else do they have to do? Its not as if they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, either. They are being paid for it, afterall. That they enjoy what they are doing is just an added bonus that most code-cutters don't get. If the marketplace demands, shouldn't they fulfill that demand? If they fail to fulfill the demand, isn't there a danger they'll lose their market share? While the inclusion of some resupply mechanism might be of some interest down the road a few years, I think there are a number of much more pressing issues that need to be addressed first, such as the way on-call artillery is handled. There is a lot of work called for on that one, and it is of much greater significance as both a realism issue and as a gameplay issue. Michael I agree. However, resupply is merely another issue. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed but rather that it might just be placed on a lower priority over other matters. Ignoring or suggesting that its pointless, will not fix it nor will it satisfy customers who percieve it is lacking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Private Bluebottle: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys: I do sometimes wish that people would stop and think a moment before posting. The suggestion/request that started off this thread would involve not only including a new unit, but a whole series of mechanisms in the code to make it work, which must not only be written, but debugged, playtested, and then debugged again. Do you suggest that this work shall go on in an alternate universe where a second team of BFC programmers can work on this and all the other idle suggestions that we can come up with at their leisure? Yes. What else do they have to do? Its not as if they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, either. They are being paid for it, afterall. That they enjoy what they are doing is just an added bonus that most code-cutters don't get. If the marketplace demands, shouldn't they fulfill that demand? If they fail to fulfill the demand, isn't there a danger they'll lose their market share?</font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 The 250/11 is a halftrack with the Pzb 41 2,8mm gun on it. The 251/11 is a telephone vehicle according to my list. Now unfortunately I have not been able to find the exact differences between the 1 and 5/6 versions. But I am sure there has to be. Here is the list I have: 250-troop carrier 250/1 panzergrenadier vehicle 250/2 telephone vehicle 250/3 radio vehicle/overhead frame 250/4 observation vehicle(aertillery) 250/5 mess(kitchen vehicle) 250/6 ammo carrier(!) 250/7 81 mm mortar vehicle 250/8 75mm support vehicle KwK 37 L24 250/9 20mm KwK38 L55 250/10 37mm PAKL45 light AT vehicle 250/11 28mm PZb41 light AT vehicle 250/12 platoon cmd vehicle 252 ammunitioncarrier 253 observation vehicle 251 troop carrier 251/ Stuka on foot with 28 or 32cm rockets 251/2 mortarvehicle 251/3 Radiovehicle 251/4 ammunitioncarrier(!) 251/5 Pioneer(assault)vehicle (!) 251/6 Commando(infantry assault)vehicle 251/7 Engineer vehicle(tools) 251/8 Ambulance 251/9 75mm Stuk 37 251/10 37mm at vehicle 251/11 Thelephone vehicle 251/12 Mess(kitchen)vehicle 251/13 Sound detector recording veh. 251/14 Sound detector receiving veh 251/15 Photographic vehicle 251/16 Flamethrower 251/17 20 mm light FLAK vehicle 251/18 Observation vehicle (artillery) 251/19 Radio interceptionvehicle(spy truck) 251/20 Infra red detection vehicle 251/21 triple 15mm or 20 mm flak vehicle 251/22 75mm PAK 40 AT vehicle Thats all I know. Now I tried to find Spielbergers book (about the Hanomags)on the net but wasnt able too. So if anyone has it please speak up. Henk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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