Major Schwager Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 On the Wehrmacht side, I have played a couple of 1941 quick battles with a friend and there appears to be no defence vs KV1s and KV2s. My research indicates that MkIVs and IIIs etc. resorted to targetting their tracks in hope of immobilizing the behemoths as their only method of attack/defence. However, in CMBB this just does not happen. Instead, German tankers continually bounce shells of the KV2s until they destroyed by a near miss or frequently a direct hit by a KV1 or KV2...a rarity in reality. Also the quick battle set up allows the Soviet player to stack his side with KVs...again not realistic. Does anyone have any advice? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denwad Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Stuka? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 If you can, buy an 88mm Flak gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Play pre-built scenario's only the problem isn't the KV-1's and KV-2's its the notion the "buying" units to play make a battle is a fair way to start. It is not IMHO. :eek: Use only pre-built scenario's and read the reviews regarding how well balanced they are at the scenario depot before you play and you won't see all that much invinicible heavy armour any more. But that is JUST my opinion on how to best enjoy CMBB. -tom w Originally posted by Major Schwager: On the Wehrmacht side, I have played a couple of 1941 quick battles with a friend and there appears to be no defence vs KV1s and KV2s. My research indicates that MkIVs and IIIs etc. resorted to targetting their tracks in hope of immobilizing the behemoths as their only method of attack/defence. However, in CMBB this just does not happen. Instead, German tankers continually bounce shells of the KV2s until they destroyed by a near miss or frequently a direct hit by a KV1 or KV2...a rarity in reality. Also the quick battle set up allows the Soviet player to stack his side with KVs...again not realistic. Does anyone have any advice? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirReal Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 If you think handling KV1's and KV2's with the wehrmacht in '41 is hard, don't even think of playing as the russians in '43. You have the 88, the russians in '43 have no AT or AA gun capable of killing the Tiger head on, and no tank either. The -only- thing capable of killing a Tiger head on is the SU-152, which don't aim very well, costs a bundle, and dies very quickly. /SirReal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Schwager Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Stukas are not available till Oct 41. When they do attack they can't seem to hit armor, whereas the Soviet a/c hit every AFV that moves, despite having several AA HTs around. Flak 88mm not abvail til Oct 41, but a good idea. I think CMBB needs a mod to at least allow the German tankers and gunners to blow the tracks off KV1s and KV2s when it is obvious that they can't penetrate their armor. Many thanks for comments. This is a great wargame! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukkov Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 you might also check out the qb rules by redwolf. go to: http://schlepper.hanse.de/redwolf/armorrules/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Agasint single KVs, infact against any singular tank 3 x Quad flak works every time 3 x SdKfz 6/2 every time too. edited cuz I suck at typing. [ July 12, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: 86smopuim ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMik1 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I feel your pain, I stopped playing QB and just play good scenarios. BigMik1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaveyyyyyyyy Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Area fire at the ground beneath his tracks. 75mm and up should do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Never had much problem stopping these AFVs myself. Without going into a lenghty tactical discusiion, how to stop them: 1. Captured 76mm ATG. 2. the 50 mm Long gun with tungsten. 3. 20 or 37 mm Flak. 4. Close assualting inf. 5. Air Craft. Try the Flak vs a KV, you'll be surprised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaegerMeister Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Sucker them in close and take them out with infantry assaults!..that has been my succesful tactic so far in PBEM battles. In a recent 1941 scenario my opponent came at me with what he thought was a fairly invincible 'troop'of KV's,5 in all, 1 i immobilised with a PZ3, and the other 4 were taken out by pioneers and infantry hiding amongst the nearest cover..cost me about 6 men,he lost 5 heavy tanks, quickly followed by the battle ! Of course if he stands off, you need one of the aforementioned 88 AA guns or field guns to damage/immobilise them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Even the lowly 37mm doorknocker can knock the treads off a KV2. You must have side shots to do it and you need a fair number of shots. Whatever the technique, KVs in '41 are hard to handle. If you're doing player pick in '41 they almost always arrive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Schwager, Besides 88s and airplanes killing KVs, SP-Is with the 47 mm AT guns also kill KV monsters, T34 monsters (for 41, that is), and all other Ruskie tanks. :eek: :eek: However, be carefull with the SP-Is. Shoot, shoot, & scoot. SP-Is can be easily killed by Ruskie on-board mortars and FO arty (because of the SP-Is' open tops and open backs) and by any Ruskie AT gun tank (because of the SP-Is' thin armor). The SP-Is are cheap point-wise. Their 47 mm gun has a high rate of fire (much faster than the KV1's & especially faster than the KV2's ROF). The 47s will penetrate & penetrate the KVs' (& T34s') armors and eventually cause the Ruskie crews to bail out. Definitely employ the SP-Is in platoon and preferably multi platoon packs, hub-to-hub. Probably one should purchase SP-Is with veteran crews in order to get earlier and more frequent hits than regular crews. Remember: in the first minute, fast move and hunt to firing positions & shoot. Then in the second minute, shoot, shoot, and get many hits from the SP-I packs. Before the second minute is finished, with proper "pause" commands, scoot the SP-Is to full cover on a reverse slope or behind woods or buildings so that the remaining enemy's LOS will be broken. Also, get away from those covered position if you fear subsequent enemy FO arty or nearby targeting of on-board mortars. I know about SP-Is because they were used against me (however, I had enough on-board mortars and FO arty to beat the SP-Is), and I have used vet SP-Is against others with great success. I hope that this helps. Cheers, Richard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUMLIN Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Do you mean JP-1s? They dont do squat against KV1s and t34s unless they get lucky on the T round count. G 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunze Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 KVs in '41 are more unkillable than any German tank in '43. With the Tigers and Panthers, you can maneuver for a close flank shot. The KV has about the same armor all around, and I've bounced shells off 'em at 13m. Infantry close assault will kill 'em. Or 88s. Immobilization and gun damage does happen to KVs, you just need a lot of hits to get it. Small-cal FlaK guns will do it. Or the autocannon most small-caliber German AFVs have. But if you want an even match, just don't play with KVs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beta1 Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Definately infantry assault. As I always seem to be saying, go asymmetric and attack his big expensive tanks with large numbers of cheap infantry and stick a few grenades up the exhaust. Cant remember if they are available but you can kill churchill 8s with panzershrecks so a KV should be doable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by Major Schwager: Stukas are not available till Oct 41. Flak 88mm not abvail til Oct 41, but a good idea.Don't know which game you are playing, but in mine you can buy 88s (100% rarity) in June 1941, and Stukas (20%) in (who would have guessed) June 1941. Regarding the impression that your planes always miss, and the opponents' always hit, I can assure you it is the same in my game though, regardless which side I am playing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJonez Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I'm a little stumped as to why flak will work against a tank. Isn't flak just an HE shell that flings shrapnel everywhere? How is that going to penetrate armor? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 DRJonez: The Flak 88 was designed to reach high flying bombers. Thus it was designed to give the shell a real push. With a gun with high muzzle velocity already built in, the Germans wasted little time in manufacturing armour piercing shells for it. With 88mm AP rounds, you'll be firing rounds into the engine block even through the heaviest frontal armour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by DrJonez: I'm a little stumped as to why flak will work against a tank. Isn't flak just an HE shell that flings shrapnel everywhere? How is that going to penetrate armor? Just guessing that you are actually asking about small caliber flak guns. What happens, gamewise, is that the target is often immobilized or gun damaged, at which point, subject to the constant "ballpeen hammer syndrome" of small caliber shells pinging on their, now less than fully functional, tank will often cause the crew to abandon it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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