zappsweden Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Dragonheart, almost all players DO fight against bugs/flaws and try to complain openly thereby increasing demand for newer patches. INCONSISTENT game design (obvious flaws) is frustrating indeed and we have had several discussions on what can be called gamey/unfair. In my opinion, playing by the rules can be dubious at most (if there are strange flaws) but the worst thing is using obvious inconsistent hard found flaws that your opponents do not know about. Especially if you base your strategies on those flaws, exploting them to the maximum. If someone does that, it proves they sacrifice fair play to achieve their personal goals by playing SC (whatever they are). [ October 30, 2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 By Dragonheart Man is it possible to have a fair game here?! First the sniffer thing than the MPP increasing thing then several bugs only known to certain players. Some things frighten me here. If anybody trys to use a unknown bug against me or cheat ...believe me i will find out and i will spread it in all forums i know. Maybe I mistyped - not so much a bug (though each person's definition is different) but a glitch - greater understanding of the game and all its triggers, odditys ect... Many of these can be 'discovered' by reading the manual and additions in detail, but not all. If this were a true bug, I'd report this (see my track record on this). Since this is more of a stritigic angle, I'll let the person who discovered it use it to beat a few more people or post as he prefers. Its not for me to 'show' his hand, and tell everyone his stratigy. I could do this for many of the people here (Zapp loves LR Jets, Terif loves the Cookie Cutter, Rambo plays crazy, I love the med ect...) but part of the fun is playing different people with their different ideas ect... So I'll let everyone figure this out on thier own. This is not a HUGE item like the Carrier in port bug, but an interesting because it has some history but is unknown (?). fair game Fair in wargames? I think Zapps post above defends what I'm not doing. Everyone uses these 'bugs' and bases there stratigy on them otherwise a more restrive set of house rules would be demanded (as I've put forward alot). I enjoyed our game DH, it was truely a great one (1945). So don't take this wrong, but experence wins in any game that is this detailed. You and others have that advantage of a quicker learning curve because of what I and others have posted and thats good, the more players the better. If this were an issue like the RRI that had no counter I would give more detail, but its not so I'll let the developer have some fun and win a few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Ah, reminds me of the time that my valiant UK Army and Free French Forces supported by a HQ unit floating offshore Captured Finland before Russia entered the war. Then I operated my entire Air Fleet to Findland and quitely waited until Germany DOW Russia and his units advanced closed to Lenningrad. I held my fire and kept my forces hidden. Then when his HQ unit ventured into range I struck. Destroying the HQ unit in one turn and then releasing my air power on the the German troops who could not flee fast enough. A bug no, gamey no. Just a "very" risky strategy that worked (after I lost many ships in the battle to destroy the German fleet and clear a path for my transports). If my opponent had supported his armies with just one airfleet he would seen my air fleets waiting in Finland. He assumed my fleets were hiding in Northern England. Poor Intelligence = Lost War [ October 30, 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Remember that for a lot of us (including myself), English is not our first language. Taking every word & trying to read something in it is not fair. Paqman --- It must be my fault. It's my fault Hombre has a FOW sniffer & showed it to me. It's my fault the source has been pointed to Terif. It's my fault English is everybody's 2nd language. It's my fault for reading a simple statement & believing what somebody else wrote. Looks like everything is my fault. Well, it's not my fault. We have plenty of people in the United States who play the "No Blah-Englo, No Blah-Blah-Englo, I speak no Blah-Englo card". Terif's statement was crystal clear: I don't cheat, especially not for SC. How else can one read this statement? You know what, this world has gone so far off the deep end, it's ridiculous. People are lost & don't know the Truth. All this political correctness stuff is crap. Nobody has a sack anymore. I swear this not a world of men. Nobody seems to think for themselves. A bunch of cowards who go with the crowd. I saw the FOW sniffer & was told Terif gave it to him, it's that simple. Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Life, the Way. Rambo stated the FOW sniffer theory 6-months ago, Rambo stated the facts about the case Rambo stated the testimony of the Truth Rambo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT [ October 30, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Rambo: I saw the FOW sniffer & was told Terif gave it to him, it's that simple I clearly said I never cheated and will never do. If someone told you I gave him a "FOW sniffer" then it is simply a lie. But probably its only the same as with all rumours: they are growing and expanding each time you tell them to someone (as far as I remember you never mentioned before that he said something like this (I think Zapp was the first who sayed he knows from hearsay, that...) and you didnt speak with Hombre Plin in the last days/weeks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I just read again the threads: Hombre Plin was last seen at October 18. Rambo you are searching for him and started your thread with the question to Hombre, which he never answered: Hombre Plin, did Terif give you the FOW sniffer? Now you state it as a fact that he said I had given it to him... I dont know which other parts from your comments are also exagerated or completely fictitious... To say it in your words: Terif >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 As I just posted in the other Forum: Rambo, if you want evidence: As you perhaps know, I save every turn of every game I played. So if you want I can send you any game you choose that we played or all together (some hundred MBs.. ) with my Password (for your eyes only :cool: ). Then you can have a look and will see I never cheated. I only know how to use my intelligence: transports, airfleets and my brain (I can count until 9, the maximum possible action points of a unit... ) [ October 31, 2003, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Terif ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 Terifgate, here's the timeline of information: 1) Formation of the SC competition. 2) We played many games, you are a proven great player because of your skills. 3) Terif is truly King of SC. 4) You have every saved game from the portals of time, posting of all your strategies, etc. 5) time passes 6) You retire 7) HombrePlin retires, demos the FOW sniffer, points a finger at you. 8) You deny it 9) I BELIEVE YOU, & take you at your word. 10) Then I read,"I don't cheat, especially not at SC." Terif, this was a closed case, UNTIL you put this special twist into it. You entered evidence that you cheat in computer games, thus your credibility dropped, big time. Since you put SC at a higher personal standard, & won't cheat at SC. Let me ask you this: What games do you cheat at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted October 31, 2003 Author Share Posted October 31, 2003 To the court of public opinion & members of the jury: Do you understand Terif's statement that was between him & Zapp? I had no part of that conversastion. Terif stated he doesn't not cheat, especially not in SC. Can the public & jury see why I have doubt? I had already believed him, the case was going to be closed. UNTIL, Terif opened his mouth, claiming he cheats at computer games. I swear, this is not a world of men. I don't care what any of you say or think of me. When a man, out of his own mouth, independent of me, says he cheats...I have no other choice but to believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I swear, this is not a world of men. I believe you. The evidence is... compelling. ***************************************** Please Note: ... concerning the current curtailed and confused condition of men... and NOT whether someone, anyone, cheats or not. As far as I'm concerned, that is nigh impossible to prove and besides... anybody who cheats at ANYTHING... merely soils their very own one-only Soul, so... that is an individual choice, eventually... with particular consequences, even if... not just today... ahem ) [ October 31, 2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Rambo: 9) I BELIEVE YOU, & take you at your word. 10) Then I read,"I don't cheat, especially not at SC." Your timeline is not correct. I wrote your No.10 4 hours before you wrote your answer with your point No 9. Besides, I looked after this expression in a dictionary and I really cant see why it should indicate that I would cheat in other games, but its your mother language, perhaps the dictionary is wrong . At least after I cleared it, you should have known what was meant and not basing all your stuff on this expression... Anyhow, we have cleared that this was only a misunderstanding. UNTIL, Terif opened his mouth, claiming he cheats at computer games. This is simply wrong. I never said that. You need to learn how to read and you need a better memory. I am pretty sure Hombre Plin never said he has the FOW sniffer from me. He only said, cheating is possible... read his posts and your own posts. You only extended your story without any new information. Hombre is away since nearly 2 weeks and you are searching for him, so obviously you had no contact since this time. I repeat it a last time so that even you cant misunderstand it again: I never cheated in any computer game. Case is closed now. [ October 31, 2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Terif ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reepicheep Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Rambo, a few points. One, Terif's first language is not English; and I know from personal experience that that can indeed have a significant effect on a discussion- even among those who speak good English. For instance, one fellow did not understand the somewhat subtle difference between the meanings of evidence and proof until I explained it to him (and he spoke good English). As has been said, English is tricky until you get the hang of it; and then it's downright impossible. Two, Terif's statement is in no way an admission of cheating. It can simply be referencing what cheating in SC would mean versus cheating, in say, a game of pinochle with a neighbor. For instance, some folks against which I have played can attest to my actions when a PBEM turn crashes on me or gets toasted in same way, and I have to replay it. I am scrupulous about not gaining an overall benefit from it because I especially want to avoid cheating in SC. Granted, I don't want to cheat in anything- but cheating in SC is something about which folks tend to be especially cognizant. Thus that can inspire further caution in those who do not want to cheat- hence Terif's statement. Three, Terif is a smart chap- why would he say anything that would so obviously incriminate himself, given your definition of what he said? Four, what good could have come from starting this topic in the first place? If you trust Terif enough to take his word for it, why even bring it up? That trust in itself indicates he wouldn't cheat! And you could just as easily have e-mailed him or the other fellow; yet you chose a course of action that regardless of the truth of the matter could negatively affect both Terif's reputation and your own. In short, there is no good evidence whatsoever that Terif is cheating or has cheated; rather, there is much the opposite. Starting this topic was not wise. Perhaps you should consider your reaction were someone to untruthfully hint something about receiving a cheating program from you, and were someone else to emblazon that on the forums.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I have to agree that this is nonesense. I took his words to mean that he doesn't cheat at games, reiterating that he doesn't cheat at SC shows the extra value he shows for the game, as well as the fact that being as good as he is wouldn't require him to cheat. You should also realize that some people cheat at things in life not realizing that they are cheating. Moving a leaf from the top of your golf ball, not hitting a provisional when your ball might be out of bounds, etc. might not be known to all players, but would constitute cheating. Speeding is not following the rules of driving, thus cheating, and I think everyone has done this. The big thing though is why even play someone that you suspect of cheating? Its just a game. Our wives, family's, god, our country etc. are much more important. Remember as a Christian we shouldn't judge others nor make statements that could start rumors(if you had kids, you would have seen the show veggie-tales, with one story on the rumor weed, which spreads through a town causing damage.) Remember that we are all sinners, we all make mistakes, intentional or otherwise. If you think someone cheats, email them personally, don't post the info here. If your still not happy, ignore and avoid that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I agree with the two posters above. This is now a dead issue unless Hombre Plin resurfaces and provides solid evidence. By solid evidence I mean the file or whatever it is that this sniffer is supposed to be. When or if you get it, forward it on to Hubert so that he can ensure that SC2 could not have the same problem. Why not email Hombre Plin direct? His silence on this forum suggests that he hasn't looked at it in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I'm not about to enter into the debate of who, what, where, when, why and how of cheating, but... Just wanted to let everyone know that I had some contact with Homre Plin late last week and we discussed some of the possibilities of cheating which I will try and address for SC2. Keep in mind, there will never be a failsafe system to prevent cheating (otherwise there would not be a cottage industry of game editing/hack programs etc. out there) but with a couple of tricks I have in mind (I won't say exactly what to for obvious reasons ), it should make it that much less transparent and a considerable effort to "cheat" in the future. Hope this helps, Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: Terif stated he doesn't not cheat, especially not in SC. Can the public & jury see why I have doubt? I do not drink alcohol, especially not on weekdays. lol (This statement is just an example and has nothing to do with the actual person writing it) [ October 31, 2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 zappsweden Boy, this is a poor statement. Don't you ever know when to stop? Obviously not. john_j_rambo i can understand that you are angry about cheating players, because they steal our time and good will. But don't blame Terif that he translated a common german sentence into english. there is no way to misunderstand this if spoken / spelled in german. It means simply that he does not cheat. Is this the truce? I don't know. But don't be suspicious because of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Well, I can't stay out of it any more. You guys need a life. You are embarrassing yourselves. To take Terif's comment "I don't cheat, especially at SC" as an admission of cheating in general is totally petty. The man told you he does not cheat, and he even offered you strong evidence to prove it (his save games). If you think someone cheats, DONT PLAY THEM. This is not a debate, it is a smear campaign. It is a kangaroo court. Please drop it. FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Really nice coummunity here it´s still the same when i was welcomed warmly. What a "hell" of a community. Forgive me to be a bit sarcastic Kurt come over here ...we need our logo here!!! By the way what Terif was saying.... Ich cheate nicht schon gar nicht in SC. Translate it if you can or find somebody doing it for you. [ October 31, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Dragonheart ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted November 1, 2003 Author Share Posted November 1, 2003 I'm going to address the issues: "Terif's 2nd language is English" --- Could have fooled me. How many posts has he written, that are absolute precise, no spelling errors, & present a specific point? Terif has written more english essays on the Forum than John Clancy has written books. Remember, Terif has a brain (according to him), is a perfectionist, a practioner, he does't make mistakes (alledgelly). His English is perfect, better than mine. Read his "tip sheet threads". Terif is a technical writer, I've never seen him miss a stride with the English language. Repeat,"No Blah-Englo card" is a lie. "I don't cheat, especially at SC" --- Terif 2003. Reepicheep --- Of course Terif didn't admit he was a cheater. If he admitted it, then there would be no reason for the investigation "Terifgate". Of course Terif is a smart chap & wouldn't incriminate himself, except for the one key statement. What crook wants to give himself away. So since cheaters are smart, doesn't mean they won't be found. "Be sure your sins will find you out" --- Old Testament in the English King James Version of 1611. What good does it starting this topic? Simple, the Truth is also good. Seek & you shall find. I want the Truth. KDG --- So I should get my religion lessons from some Veggie Tales cartoon? Dude, grow up. Read the Bible, quote me a scripture. Don't tell me to watch a cartoon. What Laodicean Church (Revelations 3:14) do you attend? For the spiritual man judgest all things (Romans). Pull the beam out, & you shall cleary see the smote in your brother's eye (Gospels). When no punishment is given, the wicked laugh (Old T.). You're just another typcially Sunday morning wet noodle, quoting cartoons rather than the scriptures. If it ain't King James, it ain't bible. Christ said sinners must repent. He never said tolerate & accept sin. The Church of America is a revolving door joke. They steal money from old people, molest kids, & tell me I shouldn't be judgemental. Whatever...get a backbone. Bill 101 --- You're right, Hombre needs to surface. Hubert --- Thanks for addressing the security needs. I don't want to wear a tainted crown. Zapp --- Even your Swedish accent understands simple English. Glad to see you think for yourself. xWormwood --- I'm not angry, I just love the truth. I've always love truth, every since I got saved when I was 5 years old. Friendly Fire --- Don't play them? No kidding. Dude, it was for the Z-League World Championship. I had no choice but to play him. Get some original material, don't post the obvious, it's boring. To the all Germans lovers --- Ich Bin NOT Berliner. I'm not a Berliner, I don't understand your raspy throat language. I watched the movie Battle of the Bulge, I can sing some German, "Von hin, hies a veight, von hingle mandle might, von danger miser cheat-er son o bitch. Ink cheat all the timer, finally got caught. My crowner iser bigger joke, til Yankee read the truth." I know more German from Elvis song,"Goosey din, goosey din, zumo see me cheat alot, Hombreman gave me sniffervieght, could see thout yankee fleet-a-lot, dingle-bat might believe knot." How's my German now? I am Rambo. I am in Search of the Truth. I am not accepting wet noodle Veggie cartoons. I am not accepting "No-Blah-Englo". I am not accepting losers who don't investigate. "Terifgate, the whole shocking story" Rambo >>> Legend & Icon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OUT [ October 31, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reepicheep Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Rambo, the premise of your first paragraph contradicts the premise of your second paragraph. If Terif, as you said, is absolutely precise and an English perfectionist, then he would not have made such a 'slip' if that phrase indeed means what you think it means (which it does not, as I previously demonstrated). Either way, your case is illogical. If his English is too perfect for him to make a lingual mistake and imply something that isn't true, then he is not going to make such a mistake if it is true! His English is perfect, better than mine.Then how can you properly judge his English? Furthermore, I know people who write in excellent English even though it's a second language for them, but who every now and then make an error. Terif hasn't won every game he's played, and it's a little much to ask that he never make a mistake in English.... Regarding the truth, I agree that it should be pursued. However, you could have at least e-mailed Terif and/or HombrePlin directly; and that would have been a wiser course of action. And if you're not willing to believe Terif's statement that he did not cheat, why would you even ask him? That indicates that you believe he is guilty without proof or even good evidence- which is not right or true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted November 1, 2003 Author Share Posted November 1, 2003 Reepicheep --- I didn't need to look for HombrePlin, he found me. He gave me the demonstration. I talked to Terif for about 3-seconds on ICQ, that's it. That's his choice. Remember something people, I stated over 6-months ago I thought "people" had FOW sniffers. Everybody laughed at me. You know who didn't laugh? Me, and the person(s) who had the FOW sniffer. Jon J. Rambo Captain of Team USA More 2nd Language from Legend,"Verbindung durch gegner unterbrochen" [ November 01, 2003, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 I talked to Terif for about 3-seconds on ICQ, that's it. That's his choice. Rambo: here is our last conversation over ICQ: Rambo: find any cool games? It would be fun to find a good combat system. Squad Leader level, where we could play tons of little scenarios, which hopefully, only take 3-5 hours per game. Rambo: I like SC, because it's simple yet complex. Most games you have to maintain a bunch of crap (push buttons) to properly play. Rambo: How long to SC-2? Terif: Yes, I also like SC the most and am playing it now mostly with some german opponents... the german community is growing fast .. . Terif: sorry, have to finish, just started a game Terif: cu another day Rambo: that's cool. Noxxe is German, I've been playing him. It must have hit the retail shelves overthere. Rambo: bye *** Rambo signed off at Fri Oct 24 17:13:36 2003. Session Close (Rambo): Fri Oct 24 17:14:56 2003 I dont know what was/is your motivation to start this smear campaign. If you are honest, you know that I didnt cheat. You are really a poor man and you have my compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappsweden Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Originally posted by Reepicheep: Rambo, the premise of your first paragraph contradicts the premise of your second paragraph. If Terif, as you said, is absolutely precise and an English perfectionist, then he would not have made such a 'slip' if that phrase indeed means what you think it means (which it does not, as I previously demonstrated). Either way, your case is illogical. If his English is too perfect for him to make a lingual mistake and imply something that isn't true, then he is not going to make such a mistake if it is true! </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />His English is perfect, better than mine.Then how can you properly judge his English? Furthermore, I know people who write in excellent English even though it's a second language for them, but who every now and then make an error. Terif hasn't won every game he's played, and it's a little much to ask that he never make a mistake in English.... Regarding the truth, I agree that it should be pursued. However, you could have at least e-mailed Terif and/or HombrePlin directly; and that would have been a wiser course of action. And if you're not willing to believe Terif's statement that he did not cheat, why would you even ask him? That indicates that you believe he is guilty without proof or even good evidence- which is not right or true. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted November 1, 2003 Author Share Posted November 1, 2003 Terif: you know that its crap and only exists in your head...and everyone else with a bit of experience knows it too.. I have ICQ history too Of course you didn't want the story to break. You call me names when I just mention it, then you change your tune when HombrePlin demos it. Before: Name calling & denial After: Mr. Polite [ November 01, 2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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