Jeff Heidman Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 With a 1 being A&A, and a 10 being WiF with all the bells and whistles, where do you think SC is going to fall based on what you ahve seen so far, and where would you *like* it to fall? I am expecting a 3, but hoped for a 7. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Jeff, I have played neither of those games, but I have played Third Reich. If you have played that, where would it be on your scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by SuperTed: Jeff, I have played neither of those games, but I have played Third Reich. If you have played that, where would it be on your scale?Never played the PC game, but I am guessing about a 6-7. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Jeff, I never played the PC one either. It looked terrible. I was actually referring to the board version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StugIII Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Jeff, I know we (you and I) discussed this earlier but I think this will pull off a 5. Will I buy this? Without a doubt. Why? If Mr. Cater provides the level of support that BTS has become known for then I'm sure any deficiencies will be addressed with patches and mods. As for WiF, man is this going to be a deep game. No, Pbem in the demo though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by SuperTed: Jeff, I have played neither of those games, but I have played Third Reich. If you have played that, where would it be on your scale?A full 3r game with select variants? about a 15... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by Compassion: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SuperTed: Jeff, I have played neither of those games, but I have played Third Reich. If you have played that, where would it be on your scale?A full 3r game with select variants? about a 15...</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 This thread seems to be running aground quickly... but, before its completely scuttled, I'll join in... I also have never played either game, but I have SEEN AA played at least. So, with 1 being the simplistic, family "wargame" and 10 being the you'll never finish it, or understand it Grog game. I'm expecting a 5, and I think SC will hit a 4 or 5, if not immediately then after a patch or two. I'd love to be surprised by a 6, and I think that is possible... Its already got depth, you can see that just by scanning this message board. I just can't wait to try it! [ May 07, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Clark ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funker Vertinox Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Between WiF and Axis and Allies... I would go with... War In Euopre God that is one detailed game... So detailed it has no AI and the only way to play is against a human. Although Greg's Grisby's War in Russia is a great deal better in strategic and battle systems. It goes with down to the man and excact type and number of tanks when doing battle strenghts as where WIE, WIF, and it look like SC will be doing just arbitrary powers in which either you win the CRT or don't. Where as WIR, you could have battles in which losses are tallied in exactly how many men are lost and what tanks and what AT, Arty pieces were lost. Even the air system is pretty good... The only problem with WIR is it's interface and extreme learning curve and DOS bugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Having played both games in their boardgame format, I still play A&A (and the new expansions) with friends. I consider them the ultimate beer & pretzels wargame. The European version is fantastic. But I found WiF to take far too long. Too complicated for a weekend game, even pulling an "all nighter". The computer version of A&A is absolute crap. It is so easy to win, from either side. Losses mean little, as the computer AI doesn't understand the basic underlying economic principals. The AI will not attack or even move into open countries, and it will not move units off France, even to counterattack after losing Southern Europe. It will often attack a couple of transports with planes, losing at least one in the process. AAA hits with anoying frequency. The question is not wether you can win, but rather how long it will take. Just recently I reloaded it, and played a couple of times. So, despite it being a dog, I still play it occasionally. I have never played the computer version of WiF. All that said, I predict SC will be a solid 5 or 6. Unless the AI has some major flaws, or the game is horribly slanted to one side, I will buy it. And, probably play it for years. Seeing the support and feedback Hubert has provided thusfar, even before release is a huge plus in my book. So I seriously doubt it will have any glaring deficiencies. I plan to order two copies as soon as it is released. Have to send one to a friend for a guaranteed opponent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Guys, I would have to agree that SC would land somewhere in the 6 range when measuring detailed realsim. However, the focus for SC has always been on balancing realism with fun and playability. Here is where this game really shines. It is possible to play the entire war in one night and still feel you played a pretty good simulation. Trust me, that's no easy task. Once you guys have the demo in hand, you'll see what I mean. [ May 07, 2002, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: SuperTed ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 On 1-10, I'd say 5 now and maybe 8 later. WiF is a complicated beast. I've read the rules and played the computer beta some, but never played the boardgame. I'd really prefer to see SC migrate towards a PC version of Advanced Third Reich, but with the shorter turns rather than seasons and some (not all) of the additional detail from WiF. I want to be able to actually play a decent campaign game, not just think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren J Pierson Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I would say a 3 or 4 depending on information I don't have. Having played A&A, A3R and WiF, I think SC will be a good game on the beer and pretzels side. From what I have read here, I think it will be a few notches below A3R on the realism/playability scale. Of course, WiF moves the "realism" benchmark way to the high side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windstarz Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I would also guess about a 4. A&A is about as simple as it can get. WiF is in my opinion overly complicated. But then I am more into having fun than trying to recreate every last detail. I like some depth but I don't want it to seem like work. I figure hard core types will hate it but they are usually almost impossible to please anyway. I also figure I will love it just like I do Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by windstarz: ... I like some depth but I don't want it to seem like work... That is the best description of what I'm hoping for in SC. Since WiF and Axis and Allies are global (although there is a newer A&A Europe and you can play WiF Europe only), the comparison is hard to make. I would say that the combat system in SC will be a 7, supply rules a 6, production rules a 4, naval rules a 4, and playability a 3. Overall, 4.5 with a 2 from the judge from Grognardia thrown out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 SuperTed's comment: It is possible to play the entire war in one night and still feel you played a pretty good simulation. Many of the game's abstractions make more sense if the design goal is to have game play move quickly and easily. It should be fun to play, and I would enjoy playing the entire war in one night. Many other players will be content with this, as indicated here. But some of us want a bit more. We'll see Middle East peace before this debate gets resolved here. Like many games, SC could offer a basic game and advanced game, even including optional rules or other variants. So rather than try to make the game "harder" for those that simply want to have fun, SC could provide alternate play modes with increased detail for those that want a more historical simulation. Providing a powerful scenario editor is another option, letting players add special unit types to the OOB if they want or change MPP costs for things. A map editor would also be nice. No game design can satisfy everyone, but at least with boardgames we could always modify the rules. Any kind of SC "toolkit" that Hubert can provide which could allow players to tinker with the default game parameters would be a big plus. There's a lot of great features here that would make for an excellent game development engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I think it will be a 4, I would like it to be a 5 or even 6. I like the thought of an easy game for a change but with alittle bit of deepth and detail but not the Complexity of WIF, but just a TAD more than the Offerings of A&A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 As originally posted by BloodyBucket: Since WiF and Axis and Allies are global (although there is a newer A&A Europe and you can play WiF Europe only), the comparison is hard to make. I would say that the combat system in SC will be a 7, supply rules a 6, production rules a 4, naval rules a 4, and playability a 3. Overall, 4.5 with a 2 from the judge from Grognardia thrown out. Did you hear the latest? :eek: That Grognardia judge has been suspended for three years by the International Wargamers Commission! Though why she would risk her reputation for Copenhagen, we haven't yet figured out. (... rumor has it that she is trysting with the Russian Grog, who unfairly exerted influence). Probably should have waited to help France regain some of that old Ancien Regime elan -- they're going to need some assistance here pretty soon, what with SuperTed on the rampage. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman uk Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I think the game would be a 4 on that scale. However, I think thats a good thing. The abstraction, if done well, could give a fantastic overall feeling of WW2, in a game you could feasibly finish in a day, as well as an AI thats possible to program and put up a fight. Ideally, it would be nicer to have something a little more in depth: bigger map, production/navy/air/politics ala Hicom, battles ala COS/WIR. A 7 on that scale. I will happily pay my few quid for SC, and truly enjoy it (said the thirsty man in the middle of the desert taking the glass of water). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck_para Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 I am hoping for a 7 or 8, based on the fun value, and playability. I don't want to micromange the war I want to plan glorious strategic victories, not worry about making sure my Spitfires have special desert sun visors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 Totally agreed there Canuck! I also think that the AI will do a much better job with LESS micromanaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 It sounds to be a 4, fun but not very realistic. I'm really hoping someone will come out with something in the 6-8 range. If it's at least a 4, I'll buy SC. Anything less than that is best kept as a board game where the fun lies in having real people (your buddies) smoking and joking with the game as a focal point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 Hmm... not sure. I only read the AAR's but i think it's going to be a 3-4 . (I really hoped for a 7) I'm quite positive I'll get Matrix Games' UV first, but the games are not comparable, so apples and oranges here. If reviews on this board are good, I'll order it together with Airborne Assault to cut down on shipping&handling. regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 After further review, I now think it will be more akin to Blitzkrieg General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWDWD Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 I'm not sure why I'm interested in this since I've never played any of the games mentioned (except for 3R), but what's your opinion now that you've played the demo? Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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