GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 I placed three tanks in scattered trees and put them in Hide status during the setup phase. At the end of turn one, they are all dead. Every single one was blasted in to oblivion without so much as a wimper. Is the "Hide" command on the armored units menu just some evil joke for us newbies to CM? What does it hide, the fact that they are about to die? Turn one and my chances of winning the QB are up in smoke along with all my armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Um do you think that the hide command makes them unseeable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Ahh, which side of cover were your AFV's sitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 The hide conmand with vehicles just has them run their engines on low idle to make less noise. They don't actually "hide." What probably happened is you were under observation when you moved to the new position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: I placed three tanks in scattered trees and put them in Hide status during the setup phase. At the end of turn one, they are all dead. Every single one was blasted in to oblivion without so much as a wimper. Is the "Hide" command on the armored units menu just some evil joke for us newbies to CM? What does it hide, the fact that they are about to die? Turn one and my chances of winning the QB are up in smoke along with all my armor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> AFAIK, hide doesn't do much other than idle their engines (so they're harder to hear) and stop them from shooting quite so eagerly at targets of opportunity. It does not reduce their visibility, as you just found out. Sounds like you should have checked LOS from your setup zone to your opponent's setup zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 Lesson learned, albeit harshly. No, they weren't spotted during movement because they never moved. They were placed there during setup as I said before. As for which side of the cover, I placed them about in the middle of the scattered trees. LOS, yes, I did check. I thought the Hide command would at least allow me to see them before they saw me. Guess I need to research the manual because I sure missed that one. I'm still pissed. So much for a fun game of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 GenSplatton, What size map were you using? IHABMC (it has always been my contention) that the maps are often too small for the battle. No room to maneuver. Dare we start this topic up again? :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 Medium I think. Supposed to be moderate hills but it's very flat. I know the standard answer is "never give in, you can always pull it out," but my armor is gone, I have no bazooka teams and only a few infantry guns, one of which is about to be destroyed. Given a distinct lack of spare time, this will probably become the fastest surrender in the annals of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Hey General..look over the 'Terrain Effects Chart' found at http://www.combatmission.com/ . Look under Older files and Mod features. It will help alot not only with your AFV's. I've used the Hide command to help reduce sound exposure to the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 Sorry Radar, can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: Medium I think. Supposed to be moderate hills but it's very flat. I know the standard answer is "never give in, you can always pull it out," but my armor is gone, I have no bazooka teams and only a few infantry guns, one of which is about to be destroyed. Given a distinct lack of spare time, this will probably become the fastest surrender in the annals of CM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't worry. CM is full of (harsh?) surprises when it comes to WYSIWYG. Its just one of the harder parts in CM in my mind. Just trying to figure out if you'll be able to see over that ridge with a small patch of pines in front of it was one of my pet peeves and sometimes it still boggles my mind. But still, welcome to CM. All I can say is have fun. Its a great game and one that can be very very enjoyable when played in the right mood. Regards, Freak WYSIWYG = what you see is what you get. [ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Freak ] [ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Freak ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But still, welcome to CM. All I can say is have fun. Its a great game and one that can be very very enjoyable when played in the right mood.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks, and message received. However, right now, I'd have to say my mood is about as un-right as it can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: Sorry Radar, can't find it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When you are on the News page of Combat Mission site, do a search for the word terrain and you will see a link to download the "Terrain Effects Table". BTW, although CM does a pretty good job at representing reality, you can always find things where the abstraction CM uses to model reality doesn't mesh with the visuals that you see on the screen. Thus, you basically have to keep in mind that if you have LOS from some position regardless of how good the cover and whether your hiding, etc... there is a mathmatical probability that your opponent may spot you. For using tanks to ambush it may be better to place a smaller unit like a sharpshooter or half squad in a place where they can hide and still have LOS to the spot you want to ambush and move your tanks just out of LOS so that you give them a hunt command when the enemy comes into range. You should place some scenarios hotseat to get a feel for how the spotting works and how to ambush (play both sides). The game will be much more enjoyable once you figure out the quirks. You'll definitely want to find hull-down positions for your tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 double post [ 06-09-2001: Message edited by: Biff ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GenSplatton: Thanks, and message received. However, right now, I'd have to say my mood is about as un-right as it can get.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, that happens. CM is a great game, I keep saying that, but it is in my mind steep. I've been playing since October or so and I am still learning. I think thats the best part of CM. Its learning curve is so steep. It keeps you learning. Its for me, what makes CM so great. Its makes you want to learn. Regards, Freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 I agree. But I think I've learned all I need to from this exercise. There's nothing else to be gained that I can see. Other than to confirm that infantry with no armor busting capability whatsoever will lose to a combined force of armor and infantry. I don't need to watch for another 24 turns to figure that one out. I'm thinking lesson learned, time to cut bait and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krinks Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Hey Radar, That little smiley face cartoon is cool. Where'd you get that? Are there a bunch of secret codes for smileys that I don't know about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 Well wtf, now I am doubly confused. According to that chart, at worst I should have had a 33% exposure. How the hell do I got spotted and taken out with 33% exposure that quickly? Ugh, the answer makes less sense than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Well it depends on the Rank of the unit and I have lost tanks to about 2 or 3% so 33% is good. If the enemy tank was a Vet or even a Reg theres a good chance hell take you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Hey thanks Krinks for the mention. I use the smilies from this site.. http://mysmilies.com/ . I select all and copy then paste to the post. Hey General your AFV silhouette is an important consideration too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 One of my pet peeves is how easy it is to spot tanks in trees that haven't moved yet. I have read accounts of how difficult it was for US troops to spot camoed German tanks in trees, even when firing. I wish tanks that setup in trees would be much harder to spot before they moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 The "silhouette" value of your AFVs also plays a role as to how easily it gets spotted. Just look up the stats of a particular AFV and it's along the top portion with speed/ground pressure/etc. IIRC the Tiger I has a value of 120, which makes it easy to spot. The frail Marders and Nashorns have relatively high values due to their awkward and tall superstructures. The Hetzers and Jagdpanzers on the other hand have low values... quite mean on the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker: The "silhouette" value of your AFVs also plays a role as to how easily it gets spotted. Just look up the stats of a particular AFV and it's along the top portion with speed/ground pressure/etc. IIRC the Tiger I has a value of 120, which makes it easy to spot. The frail Marders and Nashorns have relatively high values due to their awkward and tall superstructures. The Hetzers and Jagdpanzers on the other hand have low values... quite mean on the defense.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes its true that the bigger the silhouette is, the more esily the AFV is going to be spotted, but I concur with Vanir Ausf B, because I have seen pitures of Tigers in trees and I believe it would still be very hard to find that tiger from distances of greater then say 500 meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenSplatton Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 These were STUARTS guys. Unless I'm mistaken (which obviously wouldn't be a first), Stuarts are considered small and awfully hard to see, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Not really they are loud wich would give away there postion fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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