Gen-x87 Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 Again me and my Fighter\Bomber problems. Today I was playing a 5000 point match against the AI for a kick. Well I ended up purchasing 2 panthers, 2 Tigers, 2 Stuhs, and a Hetzer. I also grabbeb 8 250/9s and alot of other crap. I was on the defensive Anywho I was fighting away trading punches with my 88s and hetzer vs about 11 varied allied units. Since my 88s were not hitting anything even at 250 meters! That maye it was time to bring in the armor. So I brought the 2 panthers closer to the action and let the tigers duke it out at longer ranges like 1400+ meters. Knowing the comp I thought it would have fighter bombers but on turn 17 felt it safe enoough to come out and play. After all I had guns and 8 HTs, and a Hetzer running around the map. I figured they shouldhave attacked those things by now. Anywho just as my two panther start engaging the Armor I see the god forbidden shadows of planes. Booom both Panthers rendered worthless. 1 imobile, the other lost its gun. Next turn they knock out a tiger and kill my 88, then the next turn after that 1 more dead tiger and that strafe my HTs good. So I guess my question is do the fighter\bombers only show up on the scene when heavier armor shows up? And do they always make thier mark? I mean they never miss! Then on a side note would there be any reason why a 75 spotter would take 5 mins to target an area about 1100 meters in front of him with a clear LOS? Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 "I mean they never miss" Well, I've seen a Jabo make several passes at 1 Panzer IV, with great clouds of smoke and several loud bangs resulting. But when the dust cleared, that Pz IV was still spitting and prowling. So yeah, they miss sometimes. [ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 I've heard it said that the Jabos are only accurate when they are bombing your side...even when they are supposed to be on your side! But I'm sure that's not true... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 In the stock CM scenario "Wittman's Final Hour" I have been able to make it without getting nuked by those angry RAF guys. In my first try they were DAMN close to knocking him out from a rear approach so I ended up hiding between the buildings in the middle of the map. Another Tiger got hit and was immobilized but was at a relatively safe distance from the British tanks at 800+m (lucky me). Anyhow, the RAF was really trying to get Wittman's Tiger and my other Tigers were unscathed. That's why I always take 1 20mm/37mm FlaK for games =<1000pts. More for larger games to fend off those Jabos who can make life quite tough for any Panzer. [ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 It makes a big difference if you have bought AA guns or vehicles and have it near your valuable units. I don't know whether the 250/9 fires at airplanes, the 234/1 is reported to do so. Gen, did yours fire at the plane? Questions on planes: are the any differences between the various nations Allied planes, i.e. British use rockets, U.S. bombs or is it random? And why is the German one more expensive, how is it armed? [ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PondScum Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redwolf: Questions on planes: are the any differences between the various nations Allied planes, i.e. British use rockets, U.S. bombs or is it random? And why is the German one more expensive, how is it armed? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The manual contains information on how the different nationalities arm their planes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 Well, maybe you'll be more careful next time choosing sides? Just kidding. Yeah, that would suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JasonC: "I mean they never miss" Well, I've seen a Jabo make several passes at 1 Panzer IV, with great clouds of smoke and several loud bangs resulting. But when the dust cleared, that Pz IV was still spitting and prowling. So yeah, they miss sometimes. [ 06-07-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> He may be refering to their cannons/bullets, in which case hes right. I think thats just a matter of the CM engine.. something selects a target, and fires a shot/tracers at it. Unfortunately, (or fortunately), jabos always seem to be able to hit their targets accurately with gun fire - and almost always seem to get an immobilize or gun kill, or even take out, your tanks. I remember being pretty annoyed at losing 2 panthers and 1 stug and 1 mark IV (I think) to aircraft BULLETS... all quickly after eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted June 7, 2001 Share Posted June 7, 2001 I've seen F-Bs miss their targets on strafing runs quite often, even on soft targets like halftracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87 Posted June 7, 2001 Author Share Posted June 7, 2001 I must have bad luck then cause in the numerous occasions they have shown up on the scene they always make thier mark No the 250/9s didnt fire. But honestly can not tell you if they would have given the opportunity. They were off harassing the backside of the allied assualt and not anywhere near my tanks. I just found it rather strange they only showed up 2 turns after my heavy armor started to move. And this was turn 17 or 18. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I don't think it matters if your tanks are moving or not, or if any of the enemy units have seen your tanks. Planes make a flyby to look for a target. They can usually see any vehicle on the battlefield. Sometimes they don't see the big targets, often they do. Im not sure if hiding your vehicles in trees will help them stay undetected. Two possible reasons for your 75 FO having a 5 min. time: 1) Quality of the FO - Conscript 75mm can take up to 7 minutes 2) Changing your target - If you place the target area then change your mind and place it in another area far enough away, then the computer tacks on extra time. Sometimes it's enough time to bump it up an entire minute. Keep in mind that not all FOs are created equal. If you buy 3 Regular 75mm FOs they will all have slightly different times, so there is some randomness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Meyer Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I think the reason why the German plane is so expensive is because of the Allied air power. Or because the at that time there weren't many German fighter-bomber around. I once had a strange encounter with a allied fighter-bomber. I had a Shreck hiding it tall pines. It didn't move for 10 turns, it was hiding. No other unit around buthe shreck it self. Suddenly a fighter-bomber strafed the shreck in the tall pines. It seemed funny that a plane can spot 2 men in some woods hiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 From what I have read, the phrase "Arghhh Fighter\Bombers" seems to sum up the experience of many a German commander on the Western Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsbe Ave. Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket: From what I have read, the phrase "Arghhh Fighter\Bombers" seems to sum up the experience of many a German commander on the Western Front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, one of my first PBEM QB's was as Axis - I bought an expensive tank and hid it behind a ridge. Needless to say, after a turn or so of zooming around, the eyes-in-the-sky immobilized my tank, then took it out, then took out at least one more piece of armour, and strafed my troops into the bargain. The next game, I thought, Ha!, purchased my Allied aeroplane, and included an anti-tank gun for good measure. I put the gun out of sight in a good-sized depression and waited. Sure enough, an aircraft came zooming around, took out my AA gun and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. It turns out that it was mine - my opponent had not purchased air support, and neither have I, from that day forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 >I think the reason why the German plane is >so expensive is because of the Allied air >power. Or because the at that time there >weren't many German fighter-bomber around. But CM does NOT (or is supposed not to anyway) model rarity, only combat effectiveness. Roight ? >It seemed funny that a plane can spot 2 men >in some woods hiding. There are several recorded incidents where a lone, single Finnish soldiers were strafed by fighters or bombed by entire formations of medium bombers during Winter War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 5000pts and you never bothered to buy one or two 20mm flak guns??? or 37mm flak?... hmmm you could use them as very very heavy MG units against those anoying infantry hordes and when a Jabbo shows up they have a chance to shoot it down or at least make it miss its mark. as the famous Nelson says.. "HA-HAAA!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen-x87 Posted June 8, 2001 Author Share Posted June 8, 2001 Mensch: I am not arguing the merits of a fighter\bomber in a 5000 point game. I was expecting it fully. But I am wondering why they would wait 15-16 turns to show up on the scene. And why they only showed up after the Tigers and Panthers started moving. That seems a bit strange to me. Gen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Hmmm, it just sounds like the ever-popular Bad Luck crashed your party. The few bad experiences I had with F/B's have been right when I had my tanks out in the open about to do some damage...then my day gets ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen-x87: Mensch: I am not arguing the merits of a fighter\bomber in a 5000 point game. I was expecting it fully. But I am wondering why they would wait 15-16 turns to show up on the scene. And why they only showed up after the Tigers and Panthers started moving. That seems a bit strange to me. Gen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you think the fighter pilot really knows what "turn" it is? I think BTS programmed the airstrikes to be random. I once had an air attack come in closer to the end of the battle than the beginning, but that was a user made scenario. I think the QB battle scenarios are very random, though. As for the planes coming in one or two rounds after your tank was moving, its pure coincidence. In no way does the computer AI cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Let me tell about my last two games with planes around. These were in a solo campaign type thingie. In the first match I was defending this village against the armored axis horde. Air support had been promised. As it happens, my game went exceptionally well after the initial problems of stupidly losing both of my tanks. I had managed to stop the assault, one Panther lies dead right in the middle of my village I was just beginning a counterattack when I hear the roaring of a Jabo. Guess what target the bomber choosed? Man I was pissed when the rocket salvo hit the buildings both sides of the dead Panther. Buildings filled with my defenders. :mad: But that wasn't enough! The next rocket strike came at the Stug my infantry had just close assaulted. Oh yes, certainly my platoon was still right next to the tank. No, they didn't like the rocket salvo one bit. :mad: On a following fight I got to see the flip side of the coin. The mighty Luftwaffe. I'm defending again. The germans are attacking over an open space. They have MG's and mortars on a forest patch further away. Then the Luftwaffe shows up. Two huge BOOMS in the forest patch and the germans dont have firesupport anymore. Note, it's not all as bad as I made it appear. In the first example, the plane did also strafe a german halftrack. In the second case, another Jabo dropped another two bombs near my infantry. Caused at least one casualty... To sum it up. The flyboys are stupid assholes. You'll never catch me buying one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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