Jeff Heidman Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 This letter contains some tough news. It's not pleasant to hear, but it's very important, and it's part of telling the truth. I urge you to read the text that follows carefully, keeping an open mind, from the beginning to the end, and without skipping around. I further recommend that you take breaks, as many of the facts presented will take time to digest. Why doesn't BTS reveal the truth about itself? Any honest person who takes the time to think about that question will be forced to conclude that when people say that bigotry and hate are alive and well, they're right. And BTS is to blame. I can't stress this enough, but BTS's prevarications all stem from one, simple, faulty premise -- that all any child needs is a big dose of television every day. Someone has to be willing to make BTS answer for its wrongdoings. Even if it's not polite to do so. Even if it hurts a lot of people's feelings. Even if everyone else is pretending that we should all bear the brunt of BTS's actions. The practical struggle which now begins, sketched in broad outlines, takes the following course: BTS thinks it would be a great idea to endorse a complete system of leadership by mobocracy. Even if we overlook the logistical impossibilities of such an idea, the underlying premise is still flawed. Does BTS have trouble living with itself, knowing that I oppose, deplore, and disavow discrimination, extremism, and hatred of every kind? A complete answer to that question would take more space than I can afford, so I'll have to give you a simplified answer. For starters, its mercenaries are unified under a common goal. That goal is to represent a threat to all the people in the area, indeed, possibly the world. BTS claims that egotism is a viable and vital objective for our nation's educational institutions. Sound suspicious? Unsavory is a better word. The space remaining in this letter will not suffice even to enumerate the ways in which BTS has tried to conceal information and, occasionally, blatantly lie. BTS is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in its own biases, gets into all sorts of pigheaded speculation, and then makes no effort to test out its speculations -- and that's just the short list! What, then, does "anthropocentrical" mean? It means considerably more than any dictionary is likely to say. Sure, we could just sit back and let BTS paint people of different races and cultures as bloodthirsty alien forces undermining the coherent national will, but that prospect really grates on people who have any kind of common sense. I can assure you that there are some simple truths in this world. First, we must educate, inform, and nurture our children instead of keeping them ignorant, afraid, and in danger. Second, I undoubtedly believe that basic principles, painfully and gradually drawn from the wisdom, the suffering, the aspirations, and the prophetic religious teachings of countless centuries before us are far more trustworthy than BTS's unpatriotic equivocations. And finally, I do not propose a supernatural solution to the problems we're having with BTS. Instead, I propose a practical, realistic, down-to-earth approach that requires only that I contribute to the intellectual and spiritual health of the body politic. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Found one of those complaint-letter generators, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 That's just gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 WTF was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 I think what Jeff is trying to say is that BTS can out-reason amateurish kooks but not anyone else. The first thing I want to bring up is that BTS, who has posed as Savior of the World, is nothing else but the world's seducer, its destroyer, its incendiary, and its executioner. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: In addition to communicating an understanding of the terrible danger we face, I need to counteract the subtle, but pervasive, social message that says that BTS's prognoses are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos. We need to stand up for our rights. But the problems with BTS's publicity stunts don't end there. The vast majority of people would probably be willing to help me chastise BTS for not doing any research before spouting off. These people simply need information, encouragement, direction, and leadership. Let us now do what needs to be done, because in that is our only hope for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: I think what Jeff is trying to say is that Blah Blah Blah<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What the hell is this? There are people I undeniably despise. They lack morals, character, and honesty. They elevate Mr. Spkr's effusions to prominence as epistemological principles. In case you can't tell, I'm talking about Mr. Spkr here. For starters, it's unfortunate that Mr. Spkr has no real education. It's impossible to debate important topics with someone who is so mentally handicapped. His credos are a drugged-out carnival of insurrectionism. If you don't believe me, see for yourself. Mr. Spkr wants to take the focus off the real issues. What's wrong with that? What's wrong is Mr. Spkr's grasp of reality. All of this once again proves the old saying that Mr. Spkr is trying very hard to plug the hole in his dike of lies so that no more truth leaks out. Not much more to say than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 I kept my silence when Mannheim Tanker announced he wanted to waste hours and hours in fruitless conferences and meetings. I did nothing when he tried to encourage men to leave their wives, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become surly misfits. But his latest smears are the straw that breaks the camel's back. Although not without overlap and simplification, I plan to identify three primary positions on his cajoleries. I acknowledge that I have not accounted for all possible viewpoints within the parameters of these three positions. Nevertheless, given the amount of misinformation that he is circulating, I must point out that if this letter did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this letter's role is much greater than just to beat him at his own game. There are two reasons which induce me to submit his newsgroup postings to a special examination: 1) It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt, and 2) I cannot, in good conscience, step aside and let treacherous discourteous-types deploy enormous resources in a war of attrition against helpless citizens. I must admit that the second point, in particular, sometimes fills me with anxious concern. Mannheim Tanker should work with us, not step in at the eleventh hour and hog all the glory. He is differentiated from your average jaundiced liars and cheats by virtue of the fact that he wants to pull the levers of diabolism and oil the gears of alarmism. He chooses to ignore the fact that it does not require a Sherlock Holmes to prove that I am annoyed by the insecure and sometimes heartless manifestations of rebelliousness against an inherited civilization of which his cringers do not have the slightest understanding. This is all well and good, but he can get away with lies (e.g., that genocide, slavery, racism, and the systematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world's people are all utterly justified), because the average person cannot imagine anyone lying so brazenly. Not one person in a hundred will actually check out the facts for himself and discover that Mannheim Tanker is lying. His hirelings would sooner ally with evil than oppose it. Let's remember that. I find Mannheim Tanker's utterances deluded, tendentious, incomprehensible, and more than a little grungy. He will almost certainly tiptoe around that glaringly evident fact, because if he didn't, you might come to realize that he must have known that his tirades would cause high levels of outrage and would generate many letters in response (like this one). That shouldn't surprise you when you consider that the real question here is not, "What is this temperamental, yawping fascination he has with totalitarianism?". The real question is rather, "Does he realize he's more lethargic than most loquacious idiots?" No, don't guess; this isn't audience participation day. I'll just tell you. But before I do, you should note that he has found a way to avoid compliance with government regulations, circumvent any further litigation, and utilize legal, above-ground organizing in combination with illegal, underground tactics to spread hatred, animosity, and divisiveness -- all by trumping up a phony emergency. A final note: The central preconception in Mannheim Tanker's paranoid style is the belief in the existence of a vast, detestable, preternaturally effective international conspiratorial network designed to smear people of impeccable character and reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 16, 2001 Author Share Posted August 16, 2001 Mr. Mannerheim Tanker has had his say, and this is mine. There are a number of reasons Mr. Tanker isn't telling us as to why he wants to stultify art and retard the enjoyment and adoration of the beautiful. In this letter, I will expose those reasons one-by-one, on the principle that his promise of equality is a false one. But you knew that already. So let me add that if one believes statements like, "We should abandon the institutionalized and revered concept of democracy," one is, in effect, supporting rancorous, benighted boneheads. I have just one word for him: syncategorematically. Comments on the above are welcome, but please think them out first. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr: I kept my silence when Mannheim Tanker announced he wanted to waste hours and hours <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So tell me what you really think about me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 16, 2001 Author Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sancho Panza: That's just gay.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> All too often, some people attempt to make an argument by attacking and insulting those who hold opposing views. Mr. Sancho Panza's writings are a perfect example. To get immediately to the point, Mr. Panza frequently avers his support of rational discourse and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what Mr. Panza is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims. He wants to assail all that is CM. Is this so he can accelerate the natural tendency of civilization to devolve from order to chaos, liberty to tyranny, and virtue to vice, or is it to distort and trivialize the debate surrounding misoneism? You be the judge. In either case, ancient Greek dramatists discerned a peculiar virtue in being tragic. Mr. Panza would do well to realize that they never discerned any virtue in being superstitious. To summarize my views: Mr. Sancho Panza throws the word "anthropomorphologically" around as if it had the same meaning to everyone. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 I agree with Spkr. Give the man some room and listen up instead of spewing hateful comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFE Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Jeff, You sound very similar to Hegel and Feuerbach. Nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 So, Jeff, this is your new script for the X-Files? I think you will have to fill it out a bit if you plan on filling a one hour television time slot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The topic I want to cover in this letter is big and complex, and I don't have much in the way of scientific data on it. Nor do I have a lot of hard statistics, just a number of general observations and a good bit of specific anecdotal material. Here's my side of the story: Jarmo somehow manages to get away with spreading lies (his mistakes are always someone else's fault), distortions (genocide, slavery, racism, and the ystematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world's people are all completely justified), and misplaced idealism (we can all live together happily without laws, like the members of some 1960s-style dope-smoking commune). However, when I try to respond in kind, I get censored faster than you can say "roentgenographic". Astute observers have known for years that his popularity is overrated. Or, to express that sentiment without all the emotionally charged lingo, if he opened his eyes, he'd realize that he is all too typical of the sort of crude, self-satisfied scoundrels who brand me as obtuse. It may sound strange to Jarmo when I say that his arguments are dangerous to the health of a democracy, but Jarmo wants to sacrifice children on the twin altars of masochism and greed. You know what groups have historically wanted to do the same thing? Fascists and Nazis. Does he really know anything about the dissertations he claims to support? No, he doesn't. Does he have trouble living with himself, knowing that I take no part in any argument over these or any other views? There is widespread agreement in asking that question, but there is great disagreement in answering it. Jarmo wants to get me thrown in jail. He can't cite a specific statute that I've violated, but he does believe that there must be some statute. This tells me that if Jarmo can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. He really shouldn't deny both our individual and collective responsibility to live in harmony with each other and the world. That's just common sense. Of course, the people who appreciate his commentaries are those who eagerly root up common sense, prominently hold it out, and decry it as poison with astonishing alacrity. Unfortunately, I can already see the response to this letter. Someone, possibly Jarmo himself or one of his compeers, will write a grotesque piece about how utterly cruel I am. If that's the case, then so be it. What I just wrote sorely needed to be written. [ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 My head hurts after reading that :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlow Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hey Max, that actually makes a lot more sense than one of your normal posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 16, 2001 Author Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen: So, Jeff, this is your new script for the X-Files? I think you will have to fill it out a bit if you plan on filling a one hour television time slot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have a few points of contention with Berlichtingen. First and foremost, it has been said that this should not and need not be the case. I, hardheaded cynic that I am, believe that to be true. I also believe that he is right about one thing, namely that fear is what motivates us. Fear of what it means when sententious punks do exactly the things Berlichtingen accuses immature knee-biters of doing. Fear of what it says about our society when we teach our children that the ideas of "freedom" and "stoicism" are Siamese twins. And fear of impolitic dirtbags like Berlichtingen who twist the history, sociology, and anthropology disseminated by our mass media and in our children's textbooks. There's no mystery about it, no more room for fairy tales, just the knowledge that I stand by what I've written before, that if I want to languish along beneath the thousand eyes of mad brigands, that should be my prerogative. I certainly don't need him forcing me to. And that's it. Stinking, crapulous sociopaths like Berlichtingen often think they have the right to waste our time and money. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow: Hey Max, that actually makes a lot more sense than one of your normal posts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ROTFLOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marlow: Hey Max, that actually makes a lot more sense than one of your normal posts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yeah, feed on this... This letter is not meant to be witty or insulting, and I am afraid I won't even be able to make it eloquent. But I will do the best I can to prevent the production of a new crop of the most unbridled dopeheads I've ever seen. First and foremost, not only does Marlow reward mediocrity, but he then commands his yes-men, "Go, and do thou likewise." I must emphasize this because he needs to stop living in denial. He needs to wake up and realize that I, hardheaded cynic that I am, like to face facts. I like to look reality right in the eye and not pretend it's something else. And the reality of our present situation is this: He says that the sky is falling. Wow! Isn't that like hiding the stolen goods in the closet and, when the cops come in, standing in front of the closet door and exclaiming, "They're not in here!"? If Marlow can't stand the heat, he should get out of the kitchen. He supports a wide variety of contrivances. Some are wrongheaded; others are offensive. A few openly support Fabianism. His disreputable viewpoints arose out of an unjust system only to spread more injustice in their wake, proving that there is no end to short-sighted ageism, and hence, by extension, the last time I told his intimates that I want to debunk the nonsense spouted by his apostles, they declared in response, "But Marlow's credos are a breath of fresh air amid our modern culture's toxic cloud of chaos." Of course, they didn't use exactly those words, but that's exactly what they meant. Even without the sick ideology of larrikinism in the picture, we can still say that Marlow has been deluding people into believing that human life is expendable. Don't let him delude you, too. I am not going to go into too great a detail about meddlesome bimbos, but be assured that if he is going to talk about higher standards, then he needs to live by those higher standards. Comments on the above are welcome, but please think them out first. [ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: Maximus ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: I have a few points of contention with Berlichtingen...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was thinking you were off your meds, but now I see you are just on different ones. Enjoy the trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printt Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 Hey fellas... slow day here at the office too. E-mail works real well such superfulous rhetoric except the grandstand isn't quite as large as it is here. Anyone taking bets on when the locksmith gets here...? printt p.s.: flame away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by printt: Hey fellas... slow day here at the office too. E-mail works real well such superfulous rhetoric except the grandstand isn't quite as large as it is here. Anyone taking bets on when the locksmith gets here...? printt p.s.: flame away<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Flamethrower on: Everybody lock your doors, get a gun, protect yourself! Mr. Printt is planning to seek temporary tactical alliances with dishonest, disaffected libidinous-types in order to convince others that ignominious clunks are the "chosen people" of scriptural prophecy! In the first place, he does not tolerate any view that differs from his own. Rather, Printt discredits and discards those people who contradict him along with the ideas that they represent. Hostile, juvenile lummoxes suffer from a collective self-image that prefers victimization to success and imposes a suffocating group conformity that ostracizes nonconformists. Equally important is the fact that I try never to argue with him, because it's clear he's not susceptible to reason. Okay, there's no reason for me to be rude, so I'll leave you with this concept: Mr. Printt accepts -- or, at least, feels obligated to pretend to accept -- the ideological premises of fogyism. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 OK I won't post anything smart (not that I do anyhow) but.. I'm confused. Really I am, if that was law, I would pay a lawyer to try to translated best in English ok.. work with me here people.. lets take this down to say Collage level (1st semester - because everyone knows you just want to party after 5 years in Highschool and first semester marks don't matter much anyhow, besides if you chum up to that cute woman over there she may help out and not only are you parting.. *gasp* your talking to a girl!! .. er I mean woman) Any how with little pro-nouny things and big words over say... 12 letters are forbiden, tell me what you said? I'm confused, call it oh.. burnout from looking at a Computer monitor for 9 hours but.. <center><h1>HUH??…</h1></center> [ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: mensch ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 ---> General discussion forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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