Pvt.Tom Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Now I can understand getting the 76mm vs the 75mm versions of the old Ronson but does anyone spend the money to get the W or W+ Shermans? I don't see much point. The Panther's 75mm gun will go through any of them like a hot knife through butter so why waste the points? Thanks Pvt.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Not only Panthers out there, the usual variety of german armor is well over it's head against a Sherman+. I like to use the british Sherman III, but for some reason the US variety doesn't appeal to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 I am no tank expert but I think the sherman "w" has better suspension lighter ground pressure making it more mobile in bad conditions. I am not really sure about this, but I think the "w' has an advantage in this area. Not sure about any other features though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamsters Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 The W just has wet storage for the ammo, causing less fires. However, tank survivability only matters in operations, really, unless there's a significant victory point loss due to tanks lighting up rather than being KOed or abandoned. In an op, however, a flaming tank is unsalvagable, whereas an abandoned or KOed tank is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimShady Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 There are few posts further back in the Forum about the different Sherman designations, but they can be broken down into: Armament, Mobility, and Protection. Armament: 75mm, 76mm (US), 17-lb. (76.2mm, UK) Pretty self-exclamatory. Note that UK designated all 17-lb. armed tanks with designation C (so the Firefly is a Sherman I/V C) Mobility: Upgraded tanks with Horizontal Volute Suspension System (HVSS) to reduce ground pressure. Thus the M4A3E8 HVSS or Sherman Easy Eight (for E8). Protection: Orginally the Sherman was equipted with dry ammo storage. Some modification were made starting with the M4A1 model (IIRC) to incorporate wet ammo storage to make the Sherman less prone to brewing up. That's the W designation. If additional armor protection was added which I think give the W+ designation. Or you could weld extra armor to the tank hull to get 100mm of armor (proof to the Panther's 75mm gun) which was known as the M4A3E2 or Sherman Jumbo. I've probably made a few mistakes in the above. Feel free to correct. LimShady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt.Tom Posted March 26, 2001 Author Share Posted March 26, 2001 The Sherman + has better hull armor but the turret is the same, makes me wonder if it is worth the extra points? I would think that the turret is where you get hit most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jKMkIII Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 In one scenario where I got Sherman 76 W+ or something like that as reinforcement that little extra armour propably helped (at least for that extra second It was really dark and visibility was about 50m. My enemy moved two Pz IVs toward me, and I tried hit and run with my Sherman at same time. I think my Sherman fired first, but missed.. then another PzIV fires and hit my Sherman in upper front hull and it ricochets and hits other PzIV damaging its gun But unfortunately schreck or something got my Sherman second later.. but that extra armour got me one gun damaged PzIV Not that it helped, I got my butt kicked anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Well, looking from the other side... Greater number of version equals greater potential for realism. Why should CM be limited to just a measly pair of versions when the whole range can easily be incorporated? M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt.Tom Posted March 27, 2001 Author Share Posted March 27, 2001 Very true and I agree, I guess what I am wondering is in QBs does anyone buy the W or W+ Shermans and if so why. Any stories regarding their use good or bad would be useful. Thanks Pvt.Tom [This message has been edited by Pvt.Tom (edited 03-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 I, for one.. Compare the M4A3 to the M4A3(W) The latter has... More ammo for the cannon and MG's Thicker, more sloped, 100% quality armour And, as someone pointed out, higher survivability in an operation. 75L48 fire bounce time and again from that hull front. So, don’t go hull down with it… M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 I've imagined the Sherman W+ to be one of those late-war field modified uparmored Shermans. By '45 I believe they were shipping pre-cut 1" armor slabs (complete with hole for the hull mg) to add to the Sherman bow. I'm not sure, but I recall they may have been produced in liberated steel plants in France or Belgium. I've seen picts of an old cast hull 75mm gun Sherman in spring 45 with TWO 1" slabs added to the bow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 A minor note: The W, I think, is for the Wet ammo stowage which will reduce the chance of the tank brewing up. This probably wont help in a scenario because a knocked out tank is useless; but, in an operation it might come in usefull because a non-burning knocked out tank has a chance of being recovered in a later battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamsters Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Originally posted by Pak40: A minor note: The W, I think, is for the Wet ammo stowage which will reduce the chance of the tank brewing up. This probably wont help in a scenario because a knocked out tank is useless; but, in an operation it might come in usefull because a non-burning knocked out tank has a chance of being recovered in a later battle. Do people even read threads before they post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 hmmm...I think the W is for Wet ammo storage. Hamsters: No, I don't think people read the whole thread, it seems sometimes they don't even read the entire post immediately prior to theirs... ------------------ "OK, I stand corrected, but that still doesn't sound effective as the Germans still did lose the war." (Maximus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Originally posted by Hamsters: Do people even read threads before they post? If I read every post from every thread I've replied to then I wouldn't have a life. And since I often skim through threads on my work time, it isn't wise to read every post (if I want to keep my job). Please accept my humble apology, for you were the first person to post about the wet storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimShady Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Originally posted by Pak40: Please accept my humble apology, for you were the first person to post about the wet storage. Only by 5 minutes. LimShady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Sorry for my ignorant, what is a "wet storage"? Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimShady Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Originally posted by GriffinCheng+: Sorry for my ignorant, what is a "wet storage"? Griffin. The tank ammo was stored in a liquid compartment which helped prevent the Sherman from brewing up. According to the Battle Stations: Sherman program, the brew ups usually occured after the ammo was subject to the intense heat of the fuel burning (or the German PaKs kept firing at it). I imagine the the liquid submergence kept protected the ammo from cooking off my absorbing some of that heat. LimShady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Liquid? I can imagine it would be messy in loading and handling "wet" rounds, not to mention in cold weather. Griffin. Originally posted by LimShady: The tank ammo was stored in a liquid compartment which helped prevent the Sherman from brewing up. According to the Battle Stations: Sherman program, the brew ups usually occured after the ammo was subject to the intense heat of the fuel burning (or the German PaKs kept firing at it). I imagine the the liquid submergence kept protected the ammo from cooking off my absorbing some of that heat. LimShady ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Get the CMSOD at Combat Missing Command Post (CMCP) at http://www.angelfire.com/games3/CMCP/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmac@work Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 I'm sure some folks don't read all of the posts prior to submitting theirs, but another thing to consider is the sheer volume of users of this message board. Sometimes a reply is posted and two or three posts are submitted during the interim while their responses are being typed up, acting to make us simply appear as idiots... ------------------ All CM All the time! The Dogs of War CM Club http://members.tripod.com/johnnocmdow/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Want to learn about the different designations of sherms? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011379.html Possibly the forum's funniest thread ever. ------------------ The Last Defense- Made any scenarios? Send them here! Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ckoharik Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Originally posted by 109 Gustav: Want to learn about the different designations of sherms? http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011379.html Possibly the forum's funniest thread ever. *ROFL* I had completely forgotten about that one. Totally worth the time to read it over again. And GriffenCheng+, I don't believe the rounds were actually submersed in liquid, but their "slots" were surrounded by liquid filled cavities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Actually, everyone's forgotten the number 1 reason why so many different variations of M4s/Shermans were included in the game. TO DRIVE MARCO STARK RAVING MAD! We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Gordon [This message has been edited by Gordon (edited 03-27-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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