GriffinCheng+ Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Okay, Gamespot has get a section under their "Best and Worst of 2000" Awards. Under the "Special Achievement Awards", we have a category called "Best Game No One Played" and we have these nominees: Allegiance by Microsoft CMBO by BTS (!!!) Flying Heroes by Illusion Softworks Return of the Incredible Machine by Sierra Attractions Warlords Battlecry by SSG (!!!) The award goes to: (drums rolling...) Allegiance! The link to the web page is as follows: http://www.zdnet.com/gamespot/features/pc/bestof_2000/p2_15.html Here is quote about the reason why CMBO is in: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This World War II turn-based strategy game combines sophisticated 3D graphics and advanced artificial intelligence to provide an unmatched wargaming experience. The game is only available through the Battlefront.com Web site, and although sales have exceeded the publisher's initial expectations, they are much lower than typical retail releases.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WHAT?! Is the guesswork sales figures which they think it is lower than average retail sales makes it "No One Played"? Ask yourself how many games you bought from retail source that end up on the shelf or dumped or returned, because of the gameplay, installation, constant crashes, bugs, lack of features, ect? Why do Gamespot people put this category in the first place? Is it some kind of special "achievements"? Or is it just a pity that a good game is a "sleeper"? Have the Gamespot people ever visited this forumn and see how BTS people keep supporting this Masterpiece, listening to our plea and voices and tweaking (not debugging) to make it more realistic and more enjoyable. Can't they see how many support and constant players here, no matter how "small" when compared to big studios out there? Are we just "No One"? I feel pissed. But it is Gamespot, personally, I don't have any expectations from them. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 This just might be illegal, and is definitely unethical. Words like "no one plays" and "lower than normal retail sales" are damaging to products, and this assesment is based on no or guessed information. A nice phone call to the legal dept at Gamespot should correct this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownsendVol Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I see your point and I think that could be a bad stigma on a game but they also are saying that its a great game that just isnt out in mass and its not due to the web only policy of BTS. I think as time goes by the sales will stay steady due to the excellent word of mouth this game is going to get. That part is up to us to do and I will do my part. I dont even own the whole game yet and have sent the word out. But it would be nice if they put that a different way so it wouldnt sound negative to some. Maybe Games that deserve more press. LOL I dont know I am not a marketing person. But I think they did help it with their reviews, without their review I would have never known about it. Thats how I found the website. So I own them alot. Well thats my nickels worth. God Bless. "He who makes the fewest mistakes will win" General Robert R. Neyland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 One other factor: BTS has given no one a sales report. Gamespot has no idea of the actual unit sales of the game, save for BTS cryptic announcement that "CMBO has sold beyond expectations." WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pritzl Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 From the very beginning, BTS has made it their official policy to not release sales numbers. The simple reason is that it's nobody's damn business but theirs. So, for Gamespot to say things like "lower than normal retail sales" is pure speculation and, quite frankly, unethical. Of course, I wonder how many of the industry's self appointed gaming journalists have even attended a sinlge professional seminar on journalism let received an actual journalism degree. Most of these people write what are little more than gossip columns and fluff pieces about the companies that advertise in their magazines. Speaking of unethical, here is a story for you. I once was a beta tester for a title that most people on this board have likely played or at least heard about. Once the game went gold and started shipping, we were released from our NDA agreements because, unlike BTS, they had no intentions of relying on a beta team for later updates. Anyway, since there was no longer an NDA, a certain fairly popular online gaming magazine interviewed me via email about the game. A few weaks later, almost my entire response was quoted verbatim and passed off as the reviewers own insights into the workings, compromises, highlights, and faults of the game. They never even mentioned talking to me. That's called plagerism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I too wouldn't have known about CM without Gamespot. It was the screenshot on their main page that caught my eye one day in early July. I then read the review, played the demo, and the rest is history! As for them saying that "no one played" CM, I would beg to differ (unless they have sales figures, but I doubt it). Wolfenstein 3D could only be purchased via phone when it first came out, and it created a whole new genre. CM may very well do the same for war-gaming. Well, ok, the genre is already here, but it certainly brought me into it, and many other people too. Call me what you like, but those hex games only appealed to me for so long. I LOVE the feeling of actually being involved in the combat that CM gives me. View level 1 and 2 are great! However, I don't know if I'd get all bent out of shape because they said no one played it. They are after all only journalists, down there with pond scum (if there are any journalists reading this, I mean every journalist but you ), which means they'll write anything down if it gets your attention. Plus, reading about the games that are great (and possibly not marketed strongly) only gets me more interested in checking them out. My 2 cents. ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Oh come on. Placing CM in such a category is neither illegal nor unethical. And guess what? Most likely, the statement about CM selling fewer copies than most retail games is true. IIRC, last year, Jagged Alliance 2 was placed in the same category, as well as the Best Strategy category. After the Gamespot awards, sales of JA2 picked up dramatically. ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I don't think it is a dubious honor with any negative connotations, more like a great game that's a sleeper, not known to many 'casual' gamers. I think it's a coup of sorts for CM to be placed so prominently on a mainstream site as Gamespot. Like Chupacabra says about JA2, it may very well lead to further sales for BTS. A good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pritzl: A few weaks later, almost my entire response was quoted verbatim and passed off as the reviewers own insights into the workings, compromises, highlights, and faults of the game. They never even mentioned talking to me. That's called plagerism.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Plagarism happens when you take from a published or unpublished work that is not your own. If a reporter interviews you and reproduces your response in an article, that is not plagarism. I will say, however that the reporter who does this is a little confused about what reporters are supposed to do. A good reporter would be happy to quote " " your words (unless you were off the record) cause as a beta tester, you are a good, informed source. Reporters are supposed to interview informed people and pass those informed views along to readers, not act as pundits themselves. It sounds as if this reporter wanted to be the expert, not just report on what the experts said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 There is nothing illegal about saying lower than standard retail sales or words to that effect. After all, BTS surely submits its annual accounts, and these are available in the public domain. Presumably from there you would get a good idea of CMBO's sales, since it is overwhelmingly the main game sold by BTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I believe certain aspects of BTS's finances would be subject to public scrutiny only if BTS were a publicly traded company, which I assume they're not (?). ------------------ War is cruel and you cannot refine it. --Sherman [This message has been edited by Gremlin (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 They're not. ------------------ "An hour has 60 minutes, each minute in action has a thousand dangers." - Karl-Heinz Gauch, CO 1st Panzerspähkompanie, 12th SS Panzerdivision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 The bottom line for me is that Steve and Charles consider it successful enough to warrant work on CM2! Additionally, I'm glad it's not THAT successful that Steve or Charles would go buy a new Lambourghini and wrap himself around a tree, or go buy a small country, or some such so that CM2 would not produced just as surely as it wouldn't if CM weren't somewhat of a success. Gamespot can say whatever they want, for all I care! ------------------ Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Personally I hate it when journalists make sweeping generalisations, but they do it all the time, even in the most highly respected broadsheets. They just do it so that you look and say "hey, what does that moron think he/she is talking about?", and want to read the article just to confirm that you're smarter than them. Mission accomplished. However, as the saying goes, no publicity is bad publicity. Gamespot have nominated CM as "Best Game..." – the suggestion that "...No One Played" it is clearly a figure of speech to anyone with their brain switched on, so it doesn't reflect too badly on the game. Better for them to suggest that it as a good game that sold badly, than not to mention it at all. Personally, I am very ready to check out something that sounds interesting, and as a non-conformist, the suggestion that it is unpopular is of no consequence to me. I only want to know whether it's the kind of thing I'll like or not. So, better for someone to hear the suggestion that CM is unpopular than not to hear about it at all. It provokes curiosity. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Ooo, that's cool Dar. I wonder if I can figure out how to make a toilet out of them codes? Anyway, what the devil do they mean the game no one played? It's the game no one was dumb enough to spend a gazillion bucks on false advertising for because the product spoke for itself and didn't need a stupid glitzy box. THAT, is CMBO! It's also the game that only a nimrod wouldn't buy because it didn't come in a stupid glitzy box. Corporate America tickles the beer outa me sometimes. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Here ya go, Bruno: Courtesy of Joan Stark's ASCII Art site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Argh! ASCII art! My eyes!!!!!!! ------------------ Soy super bien soy super super bien soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Guys, Please don't be too hard on GameSpot. They contacted me before they ran that story and asked if it was OK to include Combat Mission. We gave them our full permission. The "no one played" in the title is just a bit of hyperbole. Obviously lots of people are playing it unless this whole message board is just a figment of my imagination. What they mean to say is really that the games on that list are games that they feel should be getting a lot more recognition (and sales) than they got. It's really meant as a compliment, like "Your game is so cool it deserves to sell just as much as any of the so-called 'big' titles." When they say that CM has sold less than retail, they are correct. Remember that for a retail game to be considered "successful" these days, it has to sell at least 300,000 copies. Combat Mission isn't doing quite that well. Although when you figure that we sell direct, and don't give away 90+% of the profits to a greedy publisher, you can accurately say that our sales equivalent is not too far from that range. (Side note: it is true that retail games which sell poorly - which may well be the majority of them - actually have sales figures which are lower than Combat Mission's. But GameSpot was referring to retail successes, not the flops). GameSpot is really trying to help us by getting the word out about CM, so please don't judge them too harshly. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangorn Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Com'on people! The section "best game no one played" means a) very good game and not much people is playing it. There's no shame on being there. I agree they could change the title to "best game everyone should be playing" but the idea is the same. Also, look at the game Warlords: battlecry, where they say it sold "only" 20k copies. CM shouldn't be far from that number, up or down, and it's not a standard retail game. That's good info about a product you could have missed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 What Steve, David & others are saying is my own perspective too. Sure, we wargamers can get ruffled a bit by being labeled as "no one", but hey, if some new PC gamers are only now just getting word of CMBO because of the Gamespot nomination, then it's another added shot in the arm for total sales. BTS certainly deserves that for the repeat updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Posted by Steve <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Obviously lots of people are playing it unless this whole message board is just a figment of my imagination<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Get the Thorazine! Just one fix! P'haps Gamespot should call it "Games More People Should Play?" DjB ps I hate having to edit a post because I left out a $^W#& close-bracket [This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Obviously lots of people are playing it unless this whole message board is just a figment of my imagination.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm afraid so Steve. The reality is that all of these posts are done by all your split personalities. All these sales were bought by your split personalities too...running up your credit cards Stev...errr John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Steve, et al, WHAT! You mean this is all real?!? Man, I gotta stop eating them Jalapeno poppers before bedtime. Hehe, okay alright, if that is what they meant. I just rather imagine that the old corporate barnacle collars of the traditional game companies, who are failing like flies, are a just a bit more than a little nervous at the thought of an upstart company who refuses to treat the consumer like an idiot and actually provides a real product for the asking price, while avoiding the needless overhead costs of depending upon stupid box art and kiddy posters to sell their half baked games, that's all. Did I leave anything out? ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted January 5, 2001 Author Share Posted January 5, 2001 Charles, Nice to see you around! I think I would spread the word out. After I voted for CMBO and read the section on Gamespot, I read tons of bad words about Gamespot on the strategy newsgroup and CGO CMBO forum. Why don't they put "Sleeper" or any better phrase than "No One Played"? That is not any "special achievement", imo. Lastly, too "bad" CMBO is not the winner of the award. (pun intended) Griffin. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: The "no one played" in the title is just a bit of hyperbole. Obviously lots of people are playing it unless this whole message board is just a figment of my imagination. GameSpot is really trying to help us by getting the word out about CM, so please don't judge them too harshly. Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 01-04-2001).] [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No One Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 The guys from Gamespot are absolutely right, I played this game No One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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