Help! All my games are the same!

[Trooper]

I'm open to suggestions here...

Playing Quick Battles TCP/IP, any game seems to have one of three outcomes.

a) Both players rush for the flag immediately. Total carnage for 5-10 turns, a lull, then survivors head for the flag again at the end.

One player heads for the flag, the other holds tight. Player A suffers artillery barrages on the objective, then Player B pushes after a while. (Usually with only two or three turns left)

c) Neither player wants to go near the flag (See artillery mentioned under 'b'. Tank fire can fit in here too). There's a probing game for 20 turns, then a coincidentally simultaneous movement to the flag at the end. Might as well only play a 5-turn game.

There are minor variations to these, for example a variant on 'c' would be tht one player takes the flag with a token 'baiting' force which is expendable, but by and large it all seems to hinge on turn End-minus-five and later.

So how can we come up with some sort of mechanic which avoids this scripting? (But still allows people to hold tight and conduct recon)

Manic Moran

[Soddball]

Did you read about the end-game randomiser? That might well solve your problems on the 'rushing the flag at the end' issue.

[Stuka]

It would appear that your 3 options (or variations of them), are very similar to the options open to commanders in real life.

There are only so many ways to skin a cat.

How else would you like to achieve your objective?

The thrill of CM is to be able to counter your opponent's moves to your own advantage.

[Crockett]

Hey Trooper

Check if this solves your problem http://www.badcoinc.com/ber/

[Wesreidau]

Play scenarios. I suggest 'der kessel' in my sig and my semi-historical 'Polder Grave' scenario!

PeterNZ

[KiwiJoe]

Im playing my 1st "recon rules" game. Max 81mm artillery and afvs with max 50mm guns. This means the axis basically get Pumas and Lynxs, Brits get Stuart Vs and Daimlers, Yanks get Greyhounds and Stuart M5A1s. This MASSIVELY reduces the total HE on the battle field and makes for a very different game. I suggest giving it a go.

[Berlichtingen]

Scenarios are the answer. I, of course, also suggest Der Kessel The problem is that QBs do not have very 'realistic' objectives... and the objectives are the same game after game.

It looks to me that you are playing mostly meeting engagements.... realistically, there should be no flags in meeting engagements. Try a no flag meeting engagement on a custom map

[mensch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

Try a no flag meeting engagement on a custom map<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ya.. nice going mr. evil.. now I'm wandering the map like a chicken without a head...

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mensch:

ya.. nice going mr. evil.. now I'm wandering the map like a chicken without a head...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that covers your entire tactical repertoire

[mensch]

unlike having flags which some person we will not name here we will call him. Cerli rushes the flags only to get hammered by 120mm, 107mm, 170mm arty and 150mm rickets.. then realize that maybe this suxs to have a flag where he can die at.

I feel your pain brother, I *snicker*.. realy feel sorry *giggle* for you.... let me *chuckle* help you, expect this *hehe* to keep on going for another 4 minutes of game play.

[Berlichtingen]

As this is a politically correct forum I will hold back on questioning your parentage

[mensch]

yesh.. do that, and I promise not to devulge your comical slap stick tactical bozo the clown manouvers.

this is about 600m of our 25km wide battle but its pretty much the same everywhere.

Berli.. I mean Cerli the dying wonder.

damn geocities.. OOOOHH I'm so glad I'm leaving it for a new home.. just hit the refresh button and you get the pic.

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: mensch ]

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mensch:

yesh.. do that, and I promice not to devulge your comical slap stick tactical bozo the clown manouvers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would that be the Bozo The Clown Maneuvers that trashed two of your gamey King Tigers?

[Soddball]

It's always the same when someone leaves the cage to the Peng Thread unlocked . . .

[Stuka]

The historically inaccurate man, lets call him Smench to protect his identity, is known to throw 150mm rickets around like the shower of dandruff from his thinning bonce every time he takes his mickey mouse hat off.

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soddball:

It's always the same when someone leaves the cage to the Peng Thread unlocked . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoops! Mensch!, get thee back to the Pool!

[Olle Petersson]

I've only experienced your scenario description once. That was the 2nd alternative, with me on the receiving end of the artillery...

My way to avoid those standstills is to simply avoid playing meeting engagements. I've played only one...

Cheers

Olle

[Scooter]

Trooper,

One thing my friend and I have done recently is to have each side only pick a platoon (or two) of one of the different classes of AFVs, turn off the flags and go hunt each other. (We tell the QB AI that it is a 2000 pt. game with a large map.) Its lots of fun and very suspenseful. One time we will use only medium tanks. The other time, we'll use heavies -OR recon vehicles. That British Daimler is quite something -even against Pumas. We always have a decision before 20 turns. Always. Enjoy!

[Panzer Leader]

Try an assault/defend. Meeting engagements are not all there is out there.

[Gen-x87]

Yup this is the common ME game. Try a defend or attack game.

In general ME games are probably meant to be gamey. I really do not know of many battles where the germans and Allied forces were rushing to capture un captured objectives at the same time.

Gen

[MrSpkr]

Hey mensch you dorky git -

Your link is broken! How are we supposed to see you kickking Cerli's butt if the link is broken?

Pleese fix or do somefink!

[Redwolf]

I had success with using the knowledge that the opponent may rush the flags to my advantage.

Especially to concentrate a major part of my force in approach of a small flag and then overrun the small detachment the opponent sends to the minor flag. Together with locked in artillery from turn 1. If the opponent doesn't go into the trap, you loose nothing.

And flags don't mean much for victory level if losses get heavy.

In my latest games against experienced players I was the only one to ever rush flags in a ME and got toasted by guns that were set up to threaten the houses around the flag (well, the Wasp did its part, too). I am reasonably sure that a flag rush is not an option in games between two good players. The damage you get from being predictable is too great.

In competive ladder games, people will usually not rush the flags. These people are equipped with guns in sight of the flags, large artillery, long-range AT equipment and stealth skills. You don't run around anywhere where the opponent may guess you run around.

I recommend playing a top player of tournamenthouse or so and try the flag rush. You will learn things to try in the next game when someone else rushes.